How do you feel about the implications of USB-C replacing the 3.5mm output jack?

Read this interesting article. Intel Proposes to Use USB Type-C Digital Audio Technology »

Apple is already going forward with this with the next iPhone.

Does the idea of build in DACs in headphones worry you?

 

I think it's a nice development. I know there will be loads of old timers out there who scoff at anythings that upsets THEIR status quo, but I think this is something that needs to happen.

I can see headphones making better use of digital data for EQ (for the bass boomers) or noise cancelling (for the travelers). Cases could be made that included the DAC of your choice, maybe even in swappable modules. If you don't like the hardware connections of your phone, just get a case/dock for it that breaks out what you need.

Already seeing this with laptops moving to fewer connectors and having docks or dongles for connections. Many cry loudly at this, but I am one that is all in favor of it just as I have never missed carrying an optical drive in my laptop for the two times a year I actually might need it, or even letting a legacy connector like ethernet or USB A determine the thickness of a device where I might use it once a month away from my desk.

Just a couple ideas off the top of my head. Sure this can be done now, but only for the techies. The current USB spec has been all about bandwidth, but the new connector offers so much flexibility that it simple should not be ignored. I can't wait for the day that I have one connector that connects everything.

 

Its hard for me to compare a 3.5mm headphone jack to a USB port. The latter is the latest in a computer I/O trend, and the headphone jack is something that predates the computer in general. This is going to make my phone less versatile, and require me to use an OTG dongle DAC. Hopefully Android lags behind Apple a generation or so on this.

With Apple, the sole rationale will be to sell USB-C enabled Beats products, but they're going to claim it allowed them to make the phone a 1/4mm thinner and it was pure altruism on their part.

 

About time!

 

I think it is an inevitable transition/evolution and makes sense.

 

Progress perhaps, but in the immediate all it does is create the need for people to buy various overpriced adapters and hubs. In Apple's zeal for minimalism they ignore that most phones get put into cases, so that purity of design matters less in the end since most of us wish to protect our investment, not stare at it on a pedestal.

Last week I finally purchased a Lightning to 30 pin adaptor so I could fully use a mount I have in my car from the iPhone 4s days that charges and sends audio to my car's radio (it's a pre-iPhone input Mazda). It's small, simple and works as it should, but the price is $29.99. Fortunately I was able to use a $10 Staples Rewards coupon towards it's purchase so that made it a tad less irritating at $19.99. I'm sure the profit margin in this device is enormous.

I also bought a really good LG optical disc drive from Macsales.com a couple of months ago. My iMac has a SuperDrive but it's become slower and less of a sure thing to actually do a good transfer of audio CDs to my computer, even though it isn't used much. When I first used the external unit and saw how blazing fast it was it was it impressed upon me how truly crappy Apple's internal unit is.

Apple innovates, but they profit enormously by forcing us into these extra post-"progress" purchases. Think about the $$$$$$ they stand to make selling adapters for people's headphones to work with the new tech.

BTW, I've been a Mac user professionally since 1990 and have great appreciation for these machines that I make my living on. That said this road is often a bumpy one, and I look at all the "progress & innovation " in a practical way. I think in the case of Apple that underlying everything is their focus on keeping you buying content through their apps and enriching the bottom line. It was a sad day when they began making products users could no longer upgrade without a great deal of bother and expense.

 

I doubt that a USB Type C port is robust enough and sturdy enough to handle the abuse it would take by having headphones plugged in. The port has to deal with having headphones plugged and unplugged frequently, the weight of the cable moving and swinging around, the leverage that the weight and movement of the cable put on the port, the headphone cable getting tugged on, etc. The USB port isn't going to last. When the USB port is damaged and inoperable the device is toast.

 

Fabulous idea! Lets get everyone to replace their perfectly good phones with something that's completely different, more complicated, and prone to break. Just one question: How do I play my vinyli (proper plural of vinyl) though this thing?

 

Gotta love all tha Apple hand wringing. USB-C is being pushed hard by Intel. It's already out on the latest PC ultrabooks and Chromebooks. Apple only has it on the 12" MacBook. So far addition of it on the next phone is pure speculation. Beats has a Lightning version for the iPhone.

 

That is a whole idea!!! When the USB port become inoperable You going to have to buy the new phone - disposable stuff for the "disposable world". They don't want You to have devices that work for the long time, how they going to sell You a new ones?
IMO the same with the modern laptops. Batteries are mostly built in, if battery stopped charging, You can't just buy another and replace it - buy a new laptop!

 

I understand it for digital media (especially mobile devices). However, I am concerned that this will inevitably kill off analog listening with headphones.

 

No.

 

It sure will, but who cares? This kind of devices mostly for common people, not audiophiles.

 

Hopefully they will rewrite the audio over USB data spec to allow for data to be tested and re-transmitted when errors are found. Then add the new data spec to all audio over USB not just phones and headphones.

 

Sounds true in theory, but in reality laptops without replaceable batteries tend to need battery replacement much less frequently than older units with replaceable batteries.

Same for phones, back in the dark ages, I had to buy a new battery about every year. Even my old Green screen iPod and my gen1 iPhone still have usable life in their batteries.

My MacBook Pros have never needed a replacement since going to built in. Apple made more money back when they sold batteries. They also offer pretty reasonable replacements if necessary.

I also plug and unplug stuff from both USB and thunderbolt many, many times a day without issue.

Of course YMMV, but this is the worst kind of FUD!

 

Another potential issue with using a USB 3/USB C data cable as a headphone cable is that USB 3/USB C cables are thicker and heavier and less flexible than portable friendly analog headphone cables. USB cables need to be thicker and less flexible due to design. Thicker and less flexible headphone cables are not convenient, especially for portable. Heavier and less flexible headphone cables also put more stress on the port the cable is plugged in to. These are not going to be convenient or friendly cables for portable audio use.

Combine that with the problems that properly designed USB C cables are not so easy to make. There are numerous USB C cables available for sale that are not up to spec, and in some cases actually can damage the gear they're plugged in to. A Google engineer has been testing various USB C cables that are for sale on Amazon. He's found cables that don't work properly, cables that only work with certain gear, and even managed to find a cable so poorly designed it fried the USB ports on his Chromebook Pixel. I would expect similar issues with USB C headphone cables. And what about what happens when a USB C headphone cable is used and abused a while. What happens if the cable develops a short due to be wadded up and shoved into a pocket? Will that short fry the USB port(s) on your phone or laptop? Are you feeling lucky? Are you going to have to feel lucky every time you plug the cable in hoping that it doesn't fry your phone or laptop?

I'm not optimistic about the usability of this plan to use the USB C port for headphones. Too many ways to fail in ways that can damage gear. Too many ways for it to be less user friendly and ergonomic to use.

 

NO! NO! NO!. Standards are there for reasons. Apple forgets not everyone wants thin, light, and flimsy which can't be upgraded. And wants something reliable and well made. Love the OS, laptop hardware too often lacking (MacBook Pros better than MacBook or MacBook Air). Windows 10 is despised, if Apple would make a nice user upgraded, local IT department maintainable Business Class MacBook Real Pro, Apple would sure gain market share. Lenovo's deploying MacBook Pros, and many are considering this. Why not for Apple to make the choice easier? All they've got to gain is market share!

 

Yeah, lets get rid of the analog hole and at the same time force the subscription model on customers. $$$

FWIW my latest laptop has a USB-C port - it was a feature I was looking for connecting hard drives etc. In early 2015 Several magazines predicted USB-C would be everywhere. It hasn't happened yet. I'm starting to think that the combination of a smaller connector with greater power transfer capabilities might not be a good thing. Lots of problems with not to spec unlicensed cables too.

Apple's plan for future connectivity for iphones etc. probably does not include USB-C. They are looking at wireless charging and bluetooth for signal transfer. Also USB-C would be a lightning killer.

 

A software fix for dangerous USB-C cables is coming »

There will be an update to the USB-C spec called USB Type-C Authentication specification, which will identify good and bad USB-C cables. That should prevent cables from frying USB ports.

 

That authentication specification can't protect against problems due to shorts in the cable. The USB-C headphone cables will need to carry power in order to power a DAC and headphone amp. So there will be power traveling along the headphone cable. What happens if the cable is abused or kinked tightly and develops a short? A short against a wire carrying power could easily blow out either the headphones or the DAC or the headphone amp or the USB port the headphones are plugged in to. It is not uncommon for headphone cables used for portable use to get a short in the cable due to normal portable use. The cables get tugged on and wadded up and abused. With an analog headphone cable a short usually won't damage the gear. The potential for a gear frying short with a USB-C cabled headphone is much greater.

The analog TRS style headphone connection isn't ideal. It actually sucks. But it works. One problem is that you risk shorting the TRS connection briefly while inserting or removing the headphone plug from the jack. Headphone amps have to be designed to handle that sort of short. And generally they do. A better design would have been a 3-pin or 4-pin XLR style connector where the connections are all separate pins and impossible (very difficult) to short while inserting or removing the jack from the plug. The TRS and TRRS style headphone connections are a pile of fail, but prefer them to USB-C.

 

From an audiophile viewpoint, I don't see this as necessarily being such a bad thing. I don't use my iPod all the time, I really only use it in the car - with a DAC providing line out anyway. So the 3.5mm jack, as much as I'd prefer the standard, is going unused.


If there is a small dongle-like Lightning DAC/headphone amp available, then when I'm at the gym, or on a plane, etc. it's really not a huge deal. One more thing to deal with but it's something I will only have to use on limited occasions. The only issue I see with this is the issue of charging. If there was some sort of pass-through type port in this dongle, that would be super ideal.


It opens up some big possibilities for audiophiles if this sparks some new products from the audio manufacturers. I can see there being nice cases with the electronics built in, or small portable DACs/headphone amps becoming more popular. Can you imagine walking around with a small McIntosh in your pocket? Blue meters and all. I can also see there being devices with built in battery packs as a secondary function, making it something many people may already want to carry around for that reason alone.



The improvement in audio quality still doesn't help if it's so incredibly difficult to reasonably manage a FLAC library. It's an industry standard and I refuse to convert to ALAC just to play nice with iTunes. If this is the year Apple really decides to focus on audio, maybe (hopefully) they'll finally open up support.

 

I got one of these (HiResTech iDSP) about a year ago:

Product »

It does sound better than the built in iPhone sound though not by a lot. I was glad to buy it but if I had to have I might not have liked it so much.

 

Good points all-around. The potential problems you mentioned would surely be something Intel would put into consideration for the safely of consumers. Or at least I hope. I'd wait and see how all of this pans out. It might not be as bad as it seems.

 

As long as adapters exist, doesn't bother me.

 

I used to work in the IT department of a large international company of which MacBook Pros are the #1 laptop in use. It's not hard to deploy and support Macs in an enterprise. To Apple "not user upgradable" just means they use a sneaky hex screw instead of a Phillips head on the chassis.