Wilson Sasha, Magico S series, B&W 800 series

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by eb24, Apr 16, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    This is a term of art- Big-Assed (or "big ass") Horns. I use it myself.
     
  2. Funky54

    Funky54 Coat Hangers do not sound good

    Every room, media / source, equipment chain.... Is different. I listened to the Futura's with several different combinations of amps, Pre's tables and digital sources. All I can tell you is they are wonderful. They are full, rich, detailed, enveloping warm, airy and very realistic. Room sizes and shapes change, but it presented the nicest full realistic sound stage I have ever heard in that room.

    As far as being "Forward or Focused" I would say they were neither and both. They were around you.
     
  3. eb24

    eb24 Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    London
    Ok! Big day of auditions. Write up below.

    Set up--
    Dealer 1: ATC 100 towers, active, with Clearaudio Ovation TT and Burmester preamp // Nagra Jazz preamp (stunning little machine btw)
    Dealer 2: Sasha 2, Magico S5, Amati Futura, all on Devialet 400, transparent audio cables, Linn LP 12 TT
    Dealer 3: 802D3, McIntosh c2500 preamp, BIG Classe power amp (dont know model), Mcintosh TT

    Thoughts on speakers--

    ATC 100 active

    Looks:
    - These are huge. Tall, wide, deep, and that all way through. all other speakers get thin or round or narrow at some point or other, but not the ATCs. Just a big old block of speaker. I like the simple yet honest styling though.
    Sound:
    - Starting with the negatives: Need volume to come alive - Sashas and 802 much better at low level listening, particularly the Sasha. And they dont really do soundstaging. Sound fills the room, but there is v little spatial separation
    - But apart from that, unreal. Loved the sound. Drums are amazing. Voices are good. Super engaging, fun to listen to. Really really got me grooving out to the tunes.
    - Good allrounders. Rock, Jazz, Afrobeat, modern RnB, all excellent

    Sasha 2
    Looks:
    - Not as huge as the ATC, and relatively pleasing proportions. Might be for some people, but I probably dont want this type of look in my living room for the next 20 years, they are just too 'loud' look wise
    Sound:
    - Unreal when listening to jazz at low volumes. so engaging, so detailed, so fun. great soundstage.
    - On medium to high levels, and with varying types of music I thought they were good, really good (good resolution, good punch), but not as engaging and magical as the ATCs -- but more engaging than the 802s

    S5
    Looks:
    - Pretty big, and I dont like the looks of the driver arrangement. Overall not for me
    Sound:
    - Very consistent view across all of the LPs I played. These speakers are mega detailed, but to a fault - for me. They present all of the ingredients of the music, but the song itself just is no fun to listen to coming out of the Magicos
    - Crossed these of my list for good. They are impressive, but not musical.

    Amati Futura
    Looks:
    - Love them. Obviously. sleek and slender proportions, beautiful finishing. Couldn't ask for more
    Sound:
    - I really wanted them to be great, but not sure if they are for me. Voices and some instruments they do wonderfully. And when they do, there really is a connection to the music. Def preferred them over the Magicos (sacrilege!)
    - But then the Amatis aren't great for all types of music. I miss the resolution in bass and treble that all other speakers offer. And they sound very laid back. Like listening to a live concert from the bar in the back, brew in hand. It's nice, sure, but sometimes you want that slam to hit!

    802D3
    Looks:
    - I think they are alright. Better than Magicos and Sashas, but still rather far from actually being nice to look at
    Sound:
    - They cannot put a foot wrong. Best allrounder of the group
    - Good a low levels, super effortless at high volumes. Great resolution across the lows, mids, highs. Maybe not quite as extreme as the Magicos, but they package it all up into music much better
    - My one gripe with these (and I have noticed this three times now) is that they don't quite move me. Just not really feeling them! The Sashas and the ATCs, and actually also the Almatis had more of 'that'
    - So I think these are the 'best' speakers across all categories, but if they are for me I don't know for sure. Maybe not.

    Rankings!--
    - Speakers ranked by how much they "moved me": ATC > Sasha 2 > Amati (not for all types of music) > 802D3 >> Magico
    - Speakers ranked by "objective quality": 802d3 >Sasha 2 (close) > ATC > Magico > Amati
    - Speakers ranked by looks: Amati > ATC > 802D3 > Sasha 2 > Magico

    Conclusions--

    - The Magicos are out because their sound signature (or lack thereof?) really is not for me
    - The Sashas are almost out, because even though I think they are great sounding, well made, good allrounders and real engaging I just don't quite see me digging their style long term
    - The 802D3 are almost out because even though I have really tried, these don't move me!
    - The Amatis are doubtful. They don't offer as much as the other speakers in direct comparison, but I like their sound and I can see myself living with them for sure!
    - The ATCs are new favourite, but I need to see if I can deal with them not being great at low volumes, and I think I need a smaller version. Question: Will I love the 50s as well?

    Final thought:
    ---- I will demo the Audio Note AN-E + Meishu amp in my home in couple of weeks. I think they will be super different to the ATCs, but I am prepared to like them for a very different reason: I think I will want to have a true, big, high end system at some point. That will probably be full range, neutral, powered by high quality SS amps. And that system might well be built around some big ATCs!!
    Not sure if this point is now though, given how constrained I am about living space.
    Long term, I can see me having 2 systems though, one being the big speaker high end system, and one being a cosy, all analogue, vinyl and (SET) tube only system. Think library system ;) It sounds like a AN system might be the ticket for that -- and I could get the second system before I get the first system if you see what I'm saying... Let's see how I like the Audio Notes. If they aren't for me, I think I will go ATC 50 / 100 or maybe take a step down from pure hifi and enjoy music and my living room with the Amatis.
     
  4. lonelysea

    lonelysea Ban Leaf Blowers

    Location:
    The Cascades
    Great write up. The more I read/hear about ATC the more interested I get. Love the simple, classic look. Are their passive speakers just as good as the active ones? I've got more than ten meters of in-wall speaker cable per box so the actives wouldn't work for me and my present setup.
    I'm due for a side by side comparison of 803D3s and Sabrinas at my local audio shop. Would love to also audition some ATCs but the nearest dealer is in San Francisco...
     
  5. Dr Tone

    Dr Tone Forum Resident

    Location:
    Calgary, AB
    @eb24 Any of the dealers cary Ayre? I'd like to hear a comparison between the AX-5 Twenty and the D2oo if you are going back.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2016
  6. BayouTiger

    BayouTiger Forum Resident

    I don't often got to listen to $25k speakers, but have listened several times lately to the new Spendor SP200's and they are really nice as well!
     
  7. beowulf

    beowulf Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chula Vista, CA
    Have you tried the Harbeth Super HL5 Plus or 40.'s2 at all? Those will give you pretty big sound and have a very caramel like tone that I particularly like quite a bit (I like them better than AN 's offerings :hide:).

    The Vinnie Rossi LIO and Harbeth rooms consistently win best of shows all the time. Plus a loaded LIO and 40.2 will run you just a couple $1000 more than what the Sasha 2's or the B&W speakers will cost you by themselves.

    I'm not a fan of corner loaded speakers and IME they sound like they're ... well, coming from the corners and I feel they don't image as well as speakers that you can pull out from the walls a little bit. A lot of people seem to have either a love or hate relationship with those types of speaker and in my experience it seems like there's very few people I've spoken with that fall in between those extremes ... though I'm sure there's some out there.
     
    eb24 likes this.
  8. murphythecat

    murphythecat https://www.last.fm/user/murphythecat

    Location:
    Canada
    ATC vs B&W! not surprised by ATC tbh. In the pro world for fullrange speakers, among Geithain and B&W, ATC are the most renowned.
    go look at gearslutz for the other two most discussed pro fullrange speakers brand with ATC and B&W: Geithain and PMC.
    In the pro world fullrange speakers, B&W, ATC, Geithain and PMC are like the 4 big choice and you will find at gearslutz many discussion about each virtues ect. From what I have read, Geithain would be the best suited for hifi in that they are very musical!

    Big geithains rl901k are undoubtly more musical presentation then ATC from what I have read without sacrificing accuracy and some will prefer ATC, some Geithain but you must audition big Geithain. they have been compared very often with the big ATC at gearslutz and not auditioning them would be a big mistake.

    I also think you really need to add JBL line arrays 1400, S3900 series, M2 or the Everest series.
    JBL is making very high end stuff. You can read the awesome review at 6moo for s3900 and since it compared very well to harbeth 40.1, I cant imagine what the jbl m2 or everest could do as they are even higher up the jbl range. Really, you must audition some of the JBL TOTL imo.

    I also would audition harbeth 40.1 and some big tannoys to complete the picture!
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2016
    eb24 likes this.
  9. timztunz

    timztunz Audioista

    Location:
    Texas
    I wouldn't buy into that statement at all.
     
  10. james

    james Summon The Queen

    Location:
    Annapolis
    Awesome day for you! Thanks for the impressions. You covered a lot of ground. I'm looking forward to hearing what you think of the AN-E's!
     
    eb24 likes this.
  11. Perfect sound forever

    Perfect sound forever Well-Known Member

    Location:
    London
    Have you heard a well set up Lenco 88? Or did you do some research on a Lenco 88 ? A turntable in the same league as a Garrard 301 When I talk , I talk from proper experience of listening to the actual equipment , I don't make bold statements & I have heard the Rega RP10 . A very nice deck but that's priced at £3,000 . I have heard a Rega Plannar 3 many times . Yet again its a good deck & one I could have bought back in the day to upgrade from my Dual 505 but I went all out for Roksan Xerses So a Lenco 88 in immaculate
    condition priced at £600 would kill it stone dead.

    The 1950s/1960s Idler Drive decks when set up properly can trounce a current belt drive deck.
     
  12. Encore

    Encore Forum Resident

    Which model AN E will you be auditioning?
     
  13. eb24

    eb24 Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    London
    Will hear the AN-E/SPe HE, on a Meishu amp.
    Should be interesting. I dont expect these to have the slam of the ATCs, and likely also not the clarity. But will they bring something new and magical? Will find out.

    Other than that I am more and more feeling like going for the ATC. Two questions remaining:
    - ATC 50 or 100?
    - Which preamp? (Audio Research Reference pre, perhaps?)
     
  14. Dr Tone

    Dr Tone Forum Resident

    Location:
    Calgary, AB
    Now you are going to have to start pre-amp shoot out thread. You mention the ATC needing some volume to come alive, from reading many reviews over the last few days, Ayre is always highly regarded for their low volume magic. So maybe KX-5 Twenty.
     
  15. eb24

    eb24 Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    London
  16. murphythecat

    murphythecat https://www.last.fm/user/murphythecat

    Location:
    Canada
    So you wont try the other reknown pro fullrange speakers? You should really audition the big Geithain and the big PMC.
     
  17. eb24

    eb24 Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    London
    I think I will stick to the ATC, if going monitor. The pro styling of the big PMCs and Geithains is just too much for me!
     
  18. murphythecat

    murphythecat https://www.last.fm/user/murphythecat

    Location:
    Canada
    your call of course but since youve tried your first and only studio fullrange speakers, i find it sad you stop right there!

    you might prefer Geithain as its been described as more musical then ATC, while retaining the same resolution ect. they image also better then ATC.

    I do find them more attractive then atc
    geithain rl901k - Google Search »

    Have you tried harbeth 40.1?
     
  19. eb24

    eb24 Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    London
    You have a point. And actually I agree, the 901Ks look alright. There seem to be 901K1 out there now with separate power blocks, these look reasonbly civil even!
    ME 901K1 »

    Let me see if I can hear them in London
     
  20. Jimi Floyd

    Jimi Floyd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pisa, Italy
    Dear eb24,

    it is a pleasure to follow this thread of yours. Let me say I approve your attention on ATCs, probably the best pick for outstanding sound quality and reasonable price among the bunch you are choosing from.

    This said, if you still have to choose a preamp for your set up I warmly, emphatically, wholeheartedly, recommend you Audio Research. I own an ARC LS27 and I still have to hear a more musical line stage. Designing a no compromise solid state or valve voltage amplifier appears to be easy: you have hundreds of high quality designs available to develop from. When actually using a preamp you recognise there is a lot more involved: switch and connector quality first, flexibility, noiseless operation, remote, protections and so on. So, the ARC LS27 is the 2nd ranked out of the list I am suggesting to you. N.1, of course, is the new ARC Ref 6. Top professional line stage out there, period.
     
    Perfect sound forever and eb24 like this.
  21. murphythecat

    murphythecat https://www.last.fm/user/murphythecat

    Location:
    Canada
    KMR audio at London have Geithain and ATC!
    You could make a shoot out between Geithain, ATC and PMC in the same room!
     
  22. eb24

    eb24 Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    London
    Thanks - AR Ref preamp is on the list for sure! maybe the Ref 5 as a used model tho...

    Yep, let me check if they can do that!
     
    murphythecat likes this.
  23. Encore

    Encore Forum Resident

    Make sure the speakers are well broken in. And the amp for that matter, but the speakers really need at least 500 hours (maybe even 1000) on them before you can judge the bass and lower midrange.
     
  24. eb24

    eb24 Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    London
    They will be!
    The chap from ATC will bring over his show demo pair plus the Meishu he uses for shows as well. The speakers come in slate! Yes, slate. Awesome.
     
  25. Dr Tone

    Dr Tone Forum Resident

    Location:
    Calgary, AB
    I hope they work out for you at home at reasonable keep the neighbours happy levels. Those nicely treated demo rooms allow for a little extra juice.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine