Neutral and accurate loudspeakers

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Stereosound, Apr 21, 2016.

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  1. gingerly

    gingerly Change Returns Success

    We may or may not decide in the future that the way we measure audio equipment is helpful or accurate, but we HAVE been doing it this way for a long time and there is a reason why capable engineers rely on these measurements to guide their process.

    Either way, here really is ZERO need to choose between something that measures well and something that sounds good. MANY products meet both criteria capably.
     
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  2. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    And then you put them in a real room and they don't measure so well.
     
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  3. gingerly

    gingerly Change Returns Success

    Of course, most competent designers TRY them in actual rooms. This is one of the reasons why UK speakers often work better in brick or stone houses. That's the primary market!
     
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  4. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    But with diligence, they can sound pretty darn good.
     
  5. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    They design them in an actual room.
    They put together the simulated crossover based on the Theile/Small parameters but then fine tune it by ear and measurements in-room.
    Troels Gravesen is an awesome DIY speaker designer and you can see pictures of the crossover board wiring streaming through the enclosure port as he remotely adjusts the crossover component values.

    ScanSpeak-3W-Discovery ยป
     
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  6. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    Interesting point re construction differences. I'm still trying to figure out how the lunatic fringe in Asia manages to fit full-on WE or RCA vintage horns, or the like, in what I assume are smallish rooms. Maybe these are underground, below the house? (I was long disinterested in traveling there, and in my dotage, I'm fascinated by the cultures- including the uber hi-fi culture of places like Japan).
     
  7. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Actually they rent out industrial space and have their audio systems in those larger venues and visit the stereo on the weekends - kinda like putting up a mistress (which these guys probably also do). Plus there are very large apartments in Hong Kong that can fit these systems. These apartments run $7-$10k US per month if they are rented however.
     
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  8. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Trying them in rooms is different than measuring them in real rooms, which nobody does (for published specifications).

    Anyway you take it apart, you can have two entirely different speakers, whose measurements are the same but they will sound different.
     
  9. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Which is why measurements in speaker spec sheets are pointless. I've never paid attention to them, ever.
     
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  10. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    Manufacturer's spec sheets are pointless. Measurements done by independent test facilities (Stereophile, Sound Stage Network) can be very valuable when comparing or evaluating prospective speakers.
     
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  11. Lester Best

    Lester Best Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Bklyn NY
     
  12. Lester Best

    Lester Best Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Bklyn NY
    Ahha! The inscrutable wisdom of the orient.
     
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  13. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Measurements are always scattershot - they are the equivalent of having a flashlight in a massive gym - you can see a little bit of something wherever you happen to aim the flashlight and less if you turn your head the other way. Listening is like having all the lights on when you walk in.

    For instance if you look at the KEF LS-50 you will see that it has a whopping 10% THD at 100hz at 87dB. My AN J/Spe (and applicable to the AN E) at 93dB (6dB louder than the KEF LS-50 which is twice the volume level) measured from 20-100hz by Hi-Fi Choice is 0.2% THD (TWENTY times less distortion - They don't measure worse than 0.6% THD at any frequency). But you don't get any of this information from a single source - you have to piece it together from several magazines that each value different measurements aspects. Pair matching (you know having the left speaker actually sound like the right speaker) - oh you have to read Ken Kessler's measurements because the other outfits are too lazy to measure two loudspeaker in a stereo pair - they all only measure one (free field).

    If you really want to test claims you have to conduct level matched blind listening sessions with several expert ears as the participants independently of any manufacturer. It has to be the ears - it's like taking wines and testing them and measuring various flavours and then putting it on a graph and saying exactly how the wine tastes because it has XYZ alcohol % versus the other or it has redder grapes than the other. And you might even say X is sweeter than Y - but until you actually drink it it means little.

    Measurements don't tell you how dynamic or visceral the speaker plays.
     
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