How do you avoid record club editions when buying on eBay?

Discussion in 'Marketplace Discussions' started by Rob9874, Apr 29, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Rob9874

    Rob9874 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Surprise, AZ
    I won an auction on a record I've wanted for a long time, but was holding out for the right one. "NM, still in shrink wrap, looks like it hasn't been played," the description said. I paid about 2X what it might normally sell for. Well it arrived today. Description was accurate. This was the condition I was holding out for. But on the back, instead of a UPC, it reads "Manufactured by BMG Direct Marketing, Indianapolis".

    I thought I may keep it until I find a replacement, but the more I thought about it, the madder I got. So I opened the listing to start a return. Of course, he doesn't accept returns. (As an experienced eBay seller myself, I know the seller's return policy doesn't mean much, as eBay takes care of buyers.) So I started a return case.

    This is the first time this has happened to me after buying many records on eBay. But now I'm wondering, how do you avoid this type of thing? Do I have to email every seller to ask if it's a record club, if they don't show a pic of the UPC?
     
  2. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialistâ„¢

    Location:
    B.C.
    :agree: Pretty much. Without proper pictures it's always a guess at best.
     
    catherine19067 likes this.
  3. Larry Mc

    Larry Mc Forum Dude

    Does it sound inferior?
     
    Rodz42 likes this.
  4. joachim.ritter

    joachim.ritter Senior Member

    A club edition is a valid reason for a return?
     
    anthontherun and Steve Martin like this.
  5. Spitfire

    Spitfire Senior Member

    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    You can either hope sellers have good pictures or you need to ask. I've been going through the same thing as I replace records I bought years ago that were record club pressings.
     
    Galley likes this.
  6. Rob9874

    Rob9874 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Surprise, AZ
    Absolutely. You don't think it is? You don't seek out specific labels when buying records? For some records, I even seek out matrix notations denoting which pressing it was, or who mastered it (BG, WLY). Granted, I usually can't find matrix notations on sight unseen purchases on eBay, but I think I should at least know when I'm buying a cheap record club knockoff.
     
    Raynie likes this.
  7. joachim.ritter

    joachim.ritter Senior Member

    For me it would probably be a reason for not wanting the LP/CD. But I was asking whether it is a reason to make the seller take the CD back and maybe even pay shipping costs?
     
  8. Rob9874

    Rob9874 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Surprise, AZ
    I think it is. Versus making me pay for something I ultimately don't want?
     
  9. chazz101s

    chazz101s Forum Resident

    But how was the item advertised? To my understanding, the seller's ad is key if you are to claim item SNAD (Significantly Not As Described). That is what gets you off the hook for return postage.

    How was this item described?
     
  10. Joseph.McClure

    Joseph.McClure Forum Resident

    Location:
    Memphis, TN
  11. curbach

    curbach Some guy on the internet

    Location:
    The ATX
    Speaking of deadwax, did you check the deadwax on your inadvertently acquired record club copy? Sometimes it is the same as the commercial pressing.
     
    jupiterboy and Raynie like this.
  12. Rob9874

    Rob9874 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Surprise, AZ
    No, I'll check that when I get home. I'll also listen to it and see if it's decent. Just disappointed to find a copy in the condition I've been looking for, for years, and find that it's BMG. Didn't mean for this to turn into an evaluation on whether or not the return was justified. My original question was how to others cope with record club editions when buying online? Not worry about it? Ask the seller if you can't tell?
     
  13. curbach

    curbach Some guy on the internet

    Location:
    The ATX
    I'm not questioning your concerns. Whether or not it's a club edition is significant for collectors which any seller should know. I would certainly ask the seller, but not all sellers are savvy enough to notice a tiny "CRC" in the fine print. But if your interest is primarily SQ rather than collectibility you may be ok. Even if it was cut by the club it may not be a bad thing. Club pressings are a real grab bag. Definitely give it a listen.
     
  14. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    I agree that the seller should have noted if the album was a record club edition and/or provided pictures that made that clear.

    Not noting an obvious record club edition is, IMHO, the same thing as not noting a promo stamp, a cutout notch, etc. As a seller you are expected to note such defects/imperfections as part of the description.
     
    TLMusic, Raynie and Rob9874 like this.
  15. Scarecrow Barrett

    Scarecrow Barrett New Member

    Location:
    London
    I had something similar - but far milder - happen to me when I bought a "NM" first press of one of my favourite records, which turned out to have a deletion clip. I didn't return it, as the record itself was what I'd call M, but I was a little put out. It wasn't visible in the photos.
     
  16. eddiel

    eddiel Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I'd have to disagree. A promo stamp, cut out notch, etc is a visible mark and those should be noted. A record club edition isn't a defect or imperfection per se. We might not like them but it doesn't mean they are defective.

    A buyer has a certain responsibility to make sure what they are buying is indeed the item they want. It wouldn't have been that difficult for the OP to ask the seller to confirm this item was the version he was looking for.

    I think it's wrong for the OP to return this as an item not as described. The seller didn't misrepresent this item IMO. The buyer should've made sure it wasn't a record club edition. It's a shame the seller has to eat this. He's got only himself to blame for this mistake. On the other hand if the seller confirmed details which were wrong, then of course it should be returned.

    To answer the OPs question on how to avoid "this type of thing" - yes you have to email the seller and ask if it isn't obvious from the pictures. If you had done this to begin with you'd have avoided the aggravation for you and the seller in this case.

    If there is information that you need that is missing from an item description (whether it's in store or online) why wouldn't you double check?
     
  17. Rob9874

    Rob9874 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Surprise, AZ
    That's what I'm asking. Seems excessive to ask every seller if a record is a Record Club version or not, but I guess you have to if you don't want those. I am a part time Top-Rated eBay seller in my free time, and pride myself on my customer service. I have argued with sellers in my 20 years on eBay the importance of making he customer happy. So many sellers want to justify making the customer eat something they don't want. I will accept returns, and pay return shipping, on anything I sell, no questions asked. I don't care what the reason is. If you overspent this month and need the money for rent, I'm not going to tell a customer "too bad, not my problem." So as a customer, I expect that same service. I don't want a record club issue. He did not describe it as such. So I returned it.

    What is the seller eating? He can easily relist it and get the same amount or more. He'll get his seller fees refunded. I guess the $2.60 shipping, but I would have paid if he didn't offer.
     
  18. eddiel

    eddiel Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    As a seller I don't think I'm obligated to refund someone, with return shipping, because they over spent or for any other reason that is not my fault. I may choose to do it, but I'm not obligated to do it and neither is any other seller. In these cases a seller is perfectly justified in expecting a buyer to deal with the consequences of their own decisions.

    If I make an error, definitely I make it right and I would pay for return shipping. If you make an error, I may put it right but you should pay the return shipping. It's only fair in my book.

    Also, I don't think it's excessive at all to ask sellers questions that you need answered. To expect a seller to list every possible detail you might want to know isn't right IMO. It's like buying a LZ II then complaining that the seller didn't state it wasn't an RL and you were looking for an RL. If there's information missing you should ask.

    There's been countless times I've gone into a store to buy an item and had to ask the employees, or do additional research online, to ensure certain details that were specific to my requirements would be met. I don't see why this would be so onerous for anyone to do, especially, when buying on ebay.

    In addition, whether you think it should be listed or not, wouldn't it make sense to ask questions anyway in order to avoid disappointment and the effort required to sort it all out? I'd rather avoid a hassle.
     
    anthontherun and chazz101s like this.
  19. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    Totally disagree. The UPC is replaced by the Mfg for BMG info. This is an imperfection.

    Or if you wish to put it another way, the assumption is that if nothing is mentioned, then an album comes with the stock retail cover, and has stock labels. Anything that deviates from a stock retail copy should be noted.

    This isn't a minor oversight, such as missing the fact that there's a minor seam split (probably the one most often overlooked even by experienced sellers). This is something that no one could miss.

    And while it can save headaches to ask additional questions before purchase, in the end the responsibility for properly and completely describing the item being sold lies with the seller. Not noting known defects is reasonable reason for a return.
     
    Raynie and Rob9874 like this.
  20. krisjay

    krisjay Psychedelic Wave Rider

    Location:
    Maine
    If you are going to sell records, you should at least have enough sense to know that a record club pressing, at the least should be mentioned. Unlike Discogs(even though there are still screw up's on there), if you buy from Ebay, a message to the seller for more details is a must. Sucks, but it saves headaches. You just have to ask questions.
     
    Rob9874 likes this.
  21. Raynie

    Raynie Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Snortland, Oregano
    You don't need to ask if club copy, it is incumbent on seller to divulge in listing.

    Check wax, if same as original or something interesting get a discount for diminished value (at least 25% lower than similar official copy). If it is a recut, negotiate for not less than 50% discount or send it back "not as described/significantly different" and fill out the feedback questionnaire stating defects. eBay removes most negative feedback for high-volume sellers but internally tracks defect data.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2016
    Rob9874 likes this.
  22. Combination

    Combination Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Orleans
    Why do you automatically assume that the seller was out to screw the buyer, and then encourage the OP to leave negative feedback? That's absolutely absurd, and frankly, it's mean spirited. The guy could have simply not known any better. Don't you ever allow for such a possibility?

    And at the end of the day, it can simply be returned (regardless of whatever return policy a seller has), as you already know.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2016
    anthontherun, krisjay and ggergm like this.
  23. Raynie

    Raynie Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Snortland, Oregano
    Changed my statement -- at best it is ignorance on seller's part but 90% likelihood it is fraud. Assuming it was an oversight, still is a mistake/not as described and should be tracked. The buyer has to pay return shipping, and inconvenience etc. so it's not without cost.

    I've sold over 5k records online and have had 2 returns for ticky-tacky reasons where I paid both ways shipping, no questions asked. I have never had a neg/neutral feedback assigned to me. I have to compete with lying scum who overgrade and misrepresent everything, makes for very hard selling when I list VG items they are selling as VG++/NM. They get away with it too much and are protected by the websites who remove neg. feedback and by complacent buyers. I rarely buy anything used online anymore, it is a total **** show.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2016
    Gumboo likes this.
  24. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    In this particular situation, whether I left negative feedback would depend entirely on how the seller handled the return. If they took it back without issue, and paid return shipping without issue, then I would not leave any feedback (plus or minus). If they gave me any problem with the return, then I'd leave negative feedback.

    If they went the extra mile (keep the record and I'll issue a refund or a personal apologetic note that I believed, plus the standard refund with return) then I'd probably leave positive feedback.
     
    Raynie likes this.
  25. Roland Stone

    Roland Stone Offending Member

    Good luck with that . . .
     
    Adam6437 and Combination like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine