What was the first TRUE concept album in rock history?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Mike Bass, Apr 30, 2016.

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  1. ibekeen

    ibekeen Forum Resident

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    California
    Annette - Italiannette
     
    ibekeen, May 2, 2016
    #176
  2. swandown

    swandown Under Assistant West Coast Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    This whole thread is stupid.

    Everyone knows the first concept album was in fact the first album itself. Because before that time, no one had come up with the CONCEPT of releasing an ALBUM of songs.

    Sheesh.
     
    swandown, May 2, 2016
    #177
  3. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    People have very different definitions of a concept album. Surfin' Safari (or Jan & Dean's albums for the same era) are certainly albums with a common theme, like Sinatra's albums from the pre-rock era. But they don't follow a certain narrative like S.F. Sorrow or Tommy.
    In the pre-rock era, concept albums were already released as early as 1940, with Dust Bowl Ballads by Woody Guthrie.
     
    Andreas, May 2, 2016
    #178
  4. Matthew B.

    Matthew B. Scream Quietly

    Location:
    Tokyo, Japan
    I'd be grateful if someone could explain to me how Jan and Dean Meet Batman, which has a plotline and everything, is not a concept album. The Tommy and Days of Future Passed proponents have been silent on that one.
     
    Matthew B., May 2, 2016
    #179
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  5. Matthew B.

    Matthew B. Scream Quietly

    Location:
    Tokyo, Japan
    It's a concept album, but it's from May 1967. There'd been lots of other themed albums by that point.
     
    Matthew B., May 2, 2016
    #180
  6. mfp

    mfp Senior Member

    Location:
    Paris, France
    If we're talking "thematic", Roy Orbison's In Dreams album feature almost exclusively songs about dreaming. Kind of remarkable considering he's more a singles type of singer.
     
    mfp, May 2, 2016
    #181
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  7. Folknik

    Folknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Walhalla, SC, United States
    I agree with most of these definitions, but the first 2 are too specific. It doesn't necessarily have to be a rock'n'roll album or a studio album. Rick Wakeman's Journey to the Center of the Earth is a live concept album (although it almost certainly has some overdubs).
     
    Folknik, May 2, 2016
    #182
  8. HfxBob

    HfxBob Forum Resident

    Location:
    Halifax Nova Scotia
    This leads directly to one of the central arguments about art - can something be art even if it is really, really bad art?

    You're right, the Jan and Dean album is a concept album. It just doesn't meet my own particular standards for concept albums that matter.

    Regardless of the how the question is posed in this this thread, I'm only interested in the ones that I think matter.

    I realize that's a completely subjective take.
     
    HfxBob, May 2, 2016
    #183
  9. Tristero

    Tristero In possession of the future tense

    Location:
    MI
    Funny, that's the first time I've ever heard anyone suggest that the Yes Album is a concept album. I don't see any explicit connections tying the material together. I guess that it just goes to show how subjective these designations can be.
     
    Tristero, May 2, 2016
    #184
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  10. zelox

    zelox Well-Known Member

    Location:
    SoCal
    Simple. Tribute and comedy based concepts don't get the same respect or recognition, much like soundtracks do not in this regard. The Jan and Dean album in question is a novelty album, complete with comedy skits. There's as many verbal and comedic dialogue sketches on it (which were written by non-musicians) as music, all based on the then new and ultra campy Batman TV series. So it comes down to how much weight should be appropriated to it as a "rock album."

    But in complete fairness, it is conceptual and it is dated 1966. I'd say it thus makes for a possible candidate for those reasons, but something of a reach at the same time.
     
    zelox, May 2, 2016
    #185
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  11. Victor/Victrola

    Victor/Victrola Makng shure its write

    Location:
    Jefferson City, MO USA
    In college, my Kinks-loving friend and I had long discussions about this very point! Our hero deliberately writes a song with questionable subject matter just to get even with the record company and it becomes successful despite everything (similar to the plot line of "The Producers" by Mel Brooks). Wonderful thing that it happened in real life and Lola was a monster hit.
     
    Victor/Victrola, May 2, 2016
    #186
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  12. Glen Leat

    Glen Leat Well-Known Member

    I've still got that on the original vinyl which my parents bought for me when it came out.
     
    Glen Leat, May 2, 2016
    #187
  13. zelox

    zelox Well-Known Member

    Location:
    SoCal
    I'd say that's one where folk music meets bluegrass laced with acid <<head on>>for good measure. I'm not sure if IWW would be better categorized as folk or country based, but if it's "rock" it's a hell of an odd form of psychedelia mixed with freak out. The common description going is that it amounts to wildly bizarre interpretations of traditional folk tunes. Ones, oddly enough, you might square dance to (when on peyote?). :laugh:

    I'm pretty certain I heard it once back in my school days, or perhaps during one of my free form recreational forays :sigh:, but what's your take on it? You've now piqued my interest.
     
    zelox, May 2, 2016
    #188
  14. cungar

    cungar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Torrance, CA
    I've never heard anyone refer to this as a concept album.
     
    cungar, May 2, 2016
    #189
  15. TimB

    TimB Pop, Rock and Blues for me!

    Location:
    Colorado
    There are many thematic albums prior to Sgt Pepper and The Who Sell Out. Pet Sounds and the Kinks Face to Face were more of a concept as opposed to thematic. Of course this begs, what is a "concept album"?
     
    TimB, May 2, 2016
    #190
  16. Rfreeman

    Rfreeman Senior Member

    Location:
    Lawrenceville, NJ
    Me too
     
    Rfreeman, May 2, 2016
    #191
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  17. millbend

    millbend Forum Resident

    Location:
    North America
    I don't know...to me concept is a term broader than theme. "War" is a concept; "war is hell" is a theme. "Death" is a concept; "death is a kind of rebirth" is a theme. Theme is a specific idea/message conveyed about the subject. There can be more than one theme, but there is usually only one overarching concept. Each song on an album might have its own individual theme, but if they all concern the same or related subject matter, then I'd call it a concept album. I don't believe it's necessary for a specific continuous narrative to flow from one song into the next.
     
    millbend, May 2, 2016
    #192
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  18. florandia

    florandia Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    I remember 'Tommy ' being released and Townsend being interviewed by just about every music and cultural magazine, newspaper and radio/tv hack and suddenly the phrase was out there, in the public consciousness ........'Rock Opera' and it was used to describe 'Tommy'.
    It is just my memory I am relying on and I was only 13 years old and did not have access to the media in the way we have now ...........I cannot recall hearing the term 'Rock Opera' being used prior to 'Tommy' being released!
    So, please answer my question .........Was the term 'Rock Opera' used to describe any other piece of rock music before 'Tommy' was released and Townsend trumpeted the fact before the world?
    I do know that the thread calls for examples of concept albums before 'Tommy' so consider this question and contribution as matters arising!
     
    florandia, May 2, 2016
    #193
  19. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Of course, that raises the issue of how we define "rock" and whether an album is a rock album simply because the artist is generally considered a rock artist. The same could be said about the Moodies, for example. Is "Nights in White Satin" a rock song? If the Moodies had say, taken their backing track and given it to Perry Como to record a vocal over, would people have considered the result to be rock? What are the essential traits of rock?
     
    czeskleba, May 2, 2016
    #194
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  20. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    I agree. I think the simplest definition is best: If all of the songs on an album fit an overall concept, then it is a concept album. Beyond that, there can be sub-types of concept albums: narrative concept albums, thematic concept albums, genre concept albums, songwriter concept albums, etc.
     
    czeskleba, May 2, 2016
    #195
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  21. JohnnyQuest

    JohnnyQuest Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paradise
    Now you have.
     
    JohnnyQuest, May 2, 2016
    #196
  22. mds

    mds Forum Resident

    Location:
    PA
    Marvin Gaye - What's Going On, I believe qualifies as a concept album vs. a theme. Concept albums however must have a theme, and yes this is not the earliest example of a concept album but a great concept album none the less.
     
    mds, May 2, 2016
    #197
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  23. tremspeed

    tremspeed Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    That, IMO is too general. If the concept is being a teenager, than too many early rock albums would qualify.
     
    tremspeed, May 2, 2016
    #198
  24. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    Location:
    California, USA, The World in Which We Live In
    Townsend referred to "A Quick One" by The Who as a "mini opera".
     
    S. P. Honeybunch, May 2, 2016
    #199
  25. ATR

    ATR Senior Member

    Location:
    Baystate
    For more information about The Who and their early history, including the creation of Tommy, I recommend the movie Lambert and Stamp about the two film makers who took The High Numbers to fame and fortune. http://www.lambertstampmovie.com/trailer
     
    ATR, May 2, 2016
    #200
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