Were The Yardbirds considered to be better than The Who prior to The Who Sell Out?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by dlokazip, Jun 10, 2014.

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  1. andy749

    andy749 Senior Member

    First time I remember seeing the Who was on Shindig. This must have been in '65 or even late '64. I was in grade school and aware of the Who well before Monterey.
     
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  2. old school

    old school Senior Member

    You're narrow view of Led Zeppelin and the tired lame claim of ripping off compositions is really getting old. The hate you have for the band is the only valid claim in this tired rant.
     
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  3. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

    Location:
    Eastern Shore
    Of course it's getting old. You responded to a post from two years ago.
    In point of fact, I like Led Zeppelin's music. It's stealing I dislike.
    My 2014 posting was based on the litigation and group settlements with the various composers whose work Zep generously showcased on its albums, as well as my awareness of other obvious borrowings from Spirit and Moby Grape that had not been litigated. As fate would have it, one now is being featured in a courtroom near you.
    Crazy world, ain't it?
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2016
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  4. old school

    old school Senior Member

    It does not matter if it's 10 years ago.
     
  5. Nick Dunning

    Nick Dunning Forum Resident

    We had an interesting discussion the other day on a similar subject. The Yardbirds are the one major 1960's band whose reputation and image has declined over the last 30 years or so.

    They were a premier league act in the UK up to 1967, and even when I was a teenager in the early 1980's had a major mistique, yet they are now are only really seen as a precursor to Zeppelin. It's quite sad.
     
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  6. Dennis Metz

    Dennis Metz Born In A Motor City south of Detroit

    Location:
    Fonthill, Ontario
    Not exactly nobodies:cheers:
     
  7. PNeski@aol.com

    [email protected] Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    The Who had three guys who could sing, Plus the best Drummer in rock
     
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  8. DrBeatle

    DrBeatle The Rock and Roll Chemist

    Location:
    Midwest via Boston
    Well, maybe I was overstating it a bit, but they certainly weren't a BIG band in the US until after Monterey...:cool:
     
  9. Dhreview16

    Dhreview16 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London UK
    The Yardbirds had some classy singles, and had the great guitarists (Beck, Clapton, Page). They started as more of a blues band, playing the same kind of clubs in SW and W London as the Stones. Over here, the Who had several early hits in particular Can't Explain, Substitute, and the seminal My Generation. They covered a lot of James Brown early on. By 66 the world had moved on, and in those pre Monterey days, the Who were more in competition (on the live circuit) not with the Yardbirds, but the emerging Cream (with Clapton) and of course with Hendrix.
     
  10. muffmasterh

    muffmasterh Forum Resident

    Location:
    East London U.K
    i think that is down to songwriting, the Yardbirds like the stones were pretty much a blues covers band, but unlike the stones there never were able to produce many self penned hits and even went down the song for hire route from the brilliant Graham Gouldman, the Stones proved capable of eventually writing their own great songs and the Who were doing that from the get go. As such it does not surprise me that their reputation is not as high as some of their contemporaries and i am not sure they were ever bigger than the Who in the UK apart from starting their recording career a few months earlier, once the Who got going i think they were regarded as pretty on par until as has been said, Sell Out by which time the birds were already fairly irrelevant.
     
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  11. ajsmith

    ajsmith Senior Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    Yeah, unlike The Beatles, Stones, Who, Kinks and Small Faces, the Yardbirds never developed a strong identity as writers of their own material. That and the lack of any majorly recognised LPs have hurt their legacy down the years I think.

    But what's weird is that, all their early hits were blues covers or G.Gouldman covers.. then in 1966 they start writing their own singles, and they are just as good, innovative and (initially) successful as their cover hits. But by 1967 they're back to doing covers again, and this time completely inappropriate covers that don't hit big. It's such a weird retrograde step that really did for the momentum of their career. You can kind of compare them to the Hollies in that respect, who also started writing their own singles in 1966 then went back to covers in '68, except in that case it proved very successful for them.
     
  12. misterdecibel

    misterdecibel Bulbous Also Tapered

    So how did they get hitched to Mickey Most anyway?
     
  13. Nick Dunning

    Nick Dunning Forum Resident

    The Yardbirds great problem was, as had already been suggested, songwriting - well it was after Paul Samwell-Smith quit.

    That the Page/Beck fronted lineup came up with the epochal 'Happenings Ten Years Time Ago' after Samwell-Smith quit is deceptive I suspect.
     
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  14. muffmasterh

    muffmasterh Forum Resident

    Location:
    East London U.K
    as far as the Hollies are concerned, the departure of Nash was a big factor although it happened just before he left as his heart ceased be in the band before he met Crosby. And you are right about the albums, the UK in particular they only released two official Albums ( UK Rave up was an export press ) and Roger the Engineer is so hard to find it cannot have sold well, ( yet it still survived the great emi catalogue purge of 1972/3... )
     
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  15. the sands

    the sands Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oslo, Norway
    I looked at early The Who singles and "I Can't Explain", "Anyway Anyhow Anywhere" and "My Generation" was their first three. :wtf:
     
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  16. keifspoon

    keifspoon Senior Member

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
  17. zelox

    zelox Well-Known Member

    Location:
    SoCal
    Record company decision, to boost singles sales since they were struggling to make an appreciable dent on the charts circa 1967. All this came at a time when the group under Page were expanding their wings in concert with increasingly sophisticated and experimental jams. The introduction of Most in the studio produced an almost schizophrenic result, one marked by forced expedition and restrictive conventions (like limits on the length of their tunes). Though Jimmy had worked with Mickey earlier as a session guitarist, the pairing in this scenario turned out to be disastrous. Nobody was happy in the end, and some feel that untimely match-up amounted to the final nail in the group's coffin (a sentiment shared by certain Yardbird members themselves).
     
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  18. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Senior Member

    Location:
    Bretagne
    I've said this before on the forum - I grew up in the 60s and I remember all of the groups (Hollies, Animals, Manfed Mann, Searchers, etc...) but I have no recollection at all of The Yardbirds. For me, they didn't exist until I was a teenager inthe mid-70s when their name often popped up in articles about Led Zep. I checked them out and found their music to be kind of second-rate Stones. Over the years, I've grown to like a few of their songs.
     
  19. greenwichsteve

    greenwichsteve Well-Known Member

    I was a teenager throughout the sixties and remember the Yardbirds having a string of hits along with the other bands you mention. I guess by the seventies they were not as well remembered because the other bands mostly still existed in one form or another whilst what was left of the Yardbirds had become Led Zeppelin and Clapton and Beck had become stars in their own right.
     
  20. zelox

    zelox Well-Known Member

    Location:
    SoCal
    They were a little like Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac in that they were a cultivated taste here stateside. Neither lit up the charts in blockbuster ways (back when that counted for so much, though the Yardbirds did manage to place five in the Top 20 during their heyday) and their album releases were received in only lukewarm fashion. For those reasons their radio play was somewhat limited, at least until the emergence of progressive FM. Those who appreciated guitar blazes in concert were more attuned to their footprints back in the 60's though. That's where they found a small but sturdy (loyal) fan base on this side of the Atlantic (just like they had back in England). The same could be said for Alvin Lee and Ten Years After I suppose, even if they did a little better overall in sales that the others, particularly after their appearance at Woodstock (and they definitely remained a big concert draw right up until they folded in the mid-70's).
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2016
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  21. douglas mcclenaghan

    douglas mcclenaghan Forum Resident

    The Yardbirds also did not have much in the way of their own songwriting, with a few exceptions, whereas The Who had one of popular music's greatest. That fact alone contributes to longevity and ultimate status (though I prefer The Yardbirds).
     
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  22. zelox

    zelox Well-Known Member

    Location:
    SoCal
    This can easily be overlooked, but it's a great point. They were struggling songwriters for much of their career, and even the majority of their chart placements were written by outsiders. They did as a collective get better in this regard as time went on, but it was never a strong suit or calling card to base their success or longevity on.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2016
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  23. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

    Location:
    Eastern Shore
    Birdland, with only two from the original line-up (with Jeff Beck in a cameo), is a surprisingly strong album, primarily remakes of the classic short singles, sympathetically lengthened to performance-duration tracks, plus a bunch of new songs every bit as enjoyable as the older stuff. A highly recommended exception to the usual warmed over reunion stuff dashed off to make a quick buck.
     
  24. muffmasterh

    muffmasterh Forum Resident

    Location:
    East London U.K
    agreed, i was a child in the 60's but the all those early bands were well known to me even then but not the Yardbirds. That is no scientific guide of course as i also have no 60's recollection of Cream or Jimi Hendrix either but it maybe indicative of some more general popularity, some of those artists were both popular and well known to very young kids like me but also regarded by older kids/teens as Serious Artists too, Beatles Stones Who etc.
     
  25. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Senior Member

    Location:
    Bretagne
    I only became aware of Cream in the early 70s when my mates and I got into rock big time. I remember seeing Jimi on TV in 1967 but the next thing I saw was the announcement of his death in 1970 :)cry:), the year I became a teenager.
     
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