Closeness of Cartridge to LP Surface?

While spinning a few LPs on my U-Turn Audio turntable tonight, I noticed that my Grado Black1 cartridge was sitting awfully close to the surface of my record.





Is this normal? Should I be concerned? Could the angle of my needle somehow have changed or got bent over time? I notice no difference in audio quality. And I only clean my needle with a dip (or two) into my Onzow Zerodust as needed, which seems to do an incredible job of removing various bits of dust and debris that cling to its tip.

I'm trying to just enjoy playing a record for the music. But, with so many small details and easily damaged parts, I don't want to get careless. I'm wondering if this closeness of cartridge to LP surface is something I should address.

 

In my experience this means your counterweight needs to be adjusted out. There's too much weight on the needle. Have you balanced your tonearm lately?

 

No, I haven't. And I'm not exactly sure how to do that. I mean, I know how to move the counterweight on my tonearm, but I have no way of measuring the force with which to reset it. I'm fairly new to vinyl - could you tell?

 

Best way to learn is to have someone show you in person. Otherwise I would search for it on YouTube. I think there must be some videos showing the correct way to do it.

 

Thanks, Matt!

 

Do a Google image search for U-turn turntables with Grado cartridges. Yours doesn't look that much lower than the other ones I see.

 

Have you noticed the cartridge sagging closer to the vinyl than before? How much usage do you have on this cart. It could be that the suspension is getting weaker, but from the Grados I've seen this one doesn't seem to be hanging too low.

Assuming you like this cartridge, perhaps splurge for a new stylus and see if that changes anything. If it does result in a better riding cartridge and/or better sound, problem fixed. If it looks and plays the same...assuming it sounds about as good as you remember it sounding...then there probably aren't any issues. In that case, hang onto the new stylus for another day when you will need it. Either way you win.

I just noticed the other post about the tracking weight. That's something you definitely need to look into. Why not get a digital scale, which will remove all of the mystery? You just turn the counterweight until you've dialed in the right tracking weight. For the Grado Black, you should be tracking at 1.5 grams.

 

If you didn't adjust the counterweight or change the cartridge, you should be fine since it is set at the factory. From the U-Turn website, it looks like you need a stylus gauge to check or properly adjust the tracking force. I wouldn't touch the counterweight until you have a stylus gauge; you can pick one up pretty cheap online.

It's been a while since I had a Grado cartridge, but IIRC that is what mine looked like. Some cartridge bodies ride closer to the record than others. The tip of the cantilever appears to be parallel to the surface of the record which means that you probably aren't totally out of whack on VTA or tracking force. However - if you want to be sure - you will need a stylus gauge.

 

Hi Get2Me, Congrats on your new table!
Cool pics.
You need to get a stylus tracking force gauge - super cheap from Music Direct.

Look at what Grado recommends for tracking force.
Even if you don't have that info, the people at Music Direct will tell you exactly how to adjust it to the right force for your cart in a snap.

Shure SFG-2 Stylus Force Gauge at Music Direct »

Easy, breezy. Do it in seconds and you'll be done with it. Even though Ellen doesn't work there.

 

I'm local if you need a hand getting it sorted out.

 

I have not touched the counterweight since I got the turntable back in August/September 2015. Therefore, yes, it should have been properly set up at U-Turn's factory prior to the turntable shipping to me. Sad to say, I'm just now starting to use it on the regular.

I tried Googling Grado Black1 cartridges with U-Turn turntables but couldn't find an example that wasn't photographed from above the tonearm looking down onto the record. I wanted an image like the ones I posted to compare. From what I could see, though, the cartridges all looked fairly close to the record surface like mine. But I couldn't be sure.

It's possible something went awry somewhere along the line. Or I'm just panicking for no good reason. Either way, I see a stylus gauge/digital scale in my future. Any recommendations for one (preferably a digital scale) on the cheap?

 

Professional NEW Version LP Digital Turntable Stylus Force Scale Gauge led dzr »

 

You can find a decent one for less than $30 on Amazon. Just make sure that you buy one that can be calibrated and has a measurement accuracy of +/-0.05g or better.

 

Things do go wrong when set at the factory, remember it is done by a human being who is churning these out quickly one after the other. Mistakes happen. It's always a good idea to verify all settings and cart alignment. Not digital, but I'd recommend the Shure Sfg-2. It's cheap and it's been around for decades, it's accurate and easy to use. I don't trust the accuracy of most digital scales, many of which are marketed as being for turntable setup but aren't designed to take measurements at the height that the stylus would be making contact with a disc.


For what it's worth, your photo looks fine. Want to see a real low-rider, check out the Dynavector Karat 17D3

 

How does it sound? Did it come with the Grado installed? Just call Music Direct and you'll get simple advice then you'll be done with it. The Grado Black should sound great.

Yeah, you're pic doesn't look wrong to me either.

How does it SOUND?

 

You guys are the best!

I hesitated posting my concerns (and including the photos) here for fear I'd be ridiculed for my decidedly low/middle-end gear. Now I'm glad I did!

I think I might pick up a Shure Sfg-2 just to be on the safe side. I watched a video on YouTube about how to use it and it seems simple enough. I think I can handle it. Hopefully all is well with my tracking force.

 

The Grado Black1 sounds like it always did. I noticed no drop in audio quality from my first listen to today. That's a good indicator, I'm guessing.

 

The Orbit is a great entry table that received high marks from several reviewers, including Michael Fremer. You made an excellent choice. How much you paid doesn't matter if the table is gentle on your records and you are happy with the sound.

 

Doesn't the counterbalance have a scale on it to measure down force? You should be able to wind out the counter balance until the arm floats horizontally, then set the counter scale to zero then dial in 1.5 if that's what is recommended. To be accurate get the Shure as mentioned previously. Yes and check youtube for videos on all this.

 

Good. But your question is a good one. It wont hurt to spend a few bucks on a gauge. You'll probably want to upgrade the cart sooner or later for fun. And believe me, the improvement will surprise you, as it did me when I did. Just enjoy what you have - you've got a great setup. Welcome To The Pleasuredome.

 

Good advice here as always. The shure is the one i would go for.
Personally speaking its the best. In my opinion, for many reasons.
I have had mine 35 years! Its reliable!
I tried a digital one but it did not last very long. I returned it and another arrived, and same thing happened.
As for accuracy say its set for 2 grams at worse , it's between 1.9 and 2.1.
Good enough! Let me explain. If you have a setting ranging from 1.5 - 2 gram
From manufacturer, 1.75 would be optimum.
I would set at 1.5 and listen.
Bass a little light, slight sibilance? Try 1.6. How does it sound now. Bass a little firmer, vocals come alive?
Were getting there.
Try 1.7. Whst are the effects of too much weight? Well, if you started at 1.5
And work your way up, when you overdo it sound just gets boring! Bass is leaden, one note, wobbly , not firm, treble sounds shut in restricted.
When you find optimum setting you are a few steps up the ladder of turntable knowledge.
You can always rely on your own ears!
With the gauge you can always restore sound quality as you know the vtf.
Accuracy is not vital, consistency is. Therefore if you find 1.75 perfect then when you set it again, and again , for whatever reason, it will always give the same weight whether or not its 100 percent accurate.
After getting vtf right measure headshell height at 2 points with arm on record( motor off ) to ensure its paralell. This setting is called vta( vertical tracking angle)
Some srms are not adjustable for height and have to be shimmed.
But, one lesson at a time.
As long as you are enjoying the superb sound lp can provide thats all we require.

 

This normal for the Grado F series and GF series. Grado is a little weird with the outer dimensions/ shape of the cartridge body. The lower edge of most other cartridges should ride parallel to the record surface, as this ensures the stylus vertical tracking angle is right, or very nearly correct. (or close enough) I hate this Grado design for NOT making the lower edge a reliable gauge for setting up the cartridge. The Grado has this weird uptilt slope just above the stylus. The upper mounting flange is made to be parallel to the record surface, as the arm rube should also be parallel.

You can relax. The Grado is just fine. The suspension may have settled a little, which could have the cart riding a little low. Still this is very normal looking for this cartridge.

BTW the original F series stylus which this type of body was designed originally had a longer cantilever, which the body had a bit more clearance to the record surface.
BTW the 2nd: Just the opposite trend, the original Shure V-15 and M91 series styli had a softer, more compliant suspension, and floated very low to the record surface at the recommended 1.25 grams. The newer replacements are stiffer... I have owned originals back in the 70's and remember how low they were to the record.

 

Thanks for the peace of mind!

I ordered a Shure SFG-2 stylus/tracking force gauge from Crutchfield last night (with free 2-day shipping to NJ!) so I'll double check/adjust as needed when it arrives.

The Grado Black1 came pre-installed on my tonearm from U-Turn Audio and, come to think of it, I'm almost certain this is how it always looked. It's probably just that weird "V" design of the cartridge making it all look like it's too close to the record surface. There is no contact other than the stylus tip and that's what matters. Let's hope things stay that way! I bought a U-Turn Orbit Plus to enjoy my records, not damage them!

 

From the look of your fixing bolts, you may just benefit from a set of light, non-magnetic (aluminium?) ones. The weight of these should also be factored into cartridge set-up.

 

I just checked my tracking force with the nifty thrifty Shure SFG-2. All seemed fine at 1.5 grams for my Grado Black1 cartridge upon first test, but depending on where I placed the needle (either near the front or rear of the first groove on the gauge) I got a slightly different reading. So I began tinkering...and tinkering and tinkering, much to my frustration.

I finally figured out I needed to place the needle as close to the middle of the outer groove on the gauge as possible to get consistent results. I also kept double checking the little slider which determines the tracking force since it kept moving ever so slightly.

I know we're dealing in grams here, but holy cow! This darn thing is sensitive! One barely perceptible move of the counterweight either forwards or backwards and the gauge reported the force was too heavy...then too light...then too heavy! Finally, I seemed to get it just right at 1.5 grams, where the little white pointers lined up with each other in the tiny mirror. Cut. Print. Moving on!

I checked the tracking force a few more times once the counterweight was locked down and I kept getting a the same reading, so all must be right, yes?

The U-Turn Audio web site warned me to make sure the counterweight was hanging perfectly straight down from the tonearm, vertically, not twisted either left or right. However, the end of the tonearm with the counterweight has a channel that the set screw extends down into when fully tightened thus preventing the counterweight from really moving in any direction except horizontally, front to back.

As Peggy Lee once said, is that all there is? My inexperience had me thinking this would be a much more difficult process. Nevertheless, I hope I did it right!