Life without tone controls ... it sucks!

Nicely said. I suspect that Slytherin House is not adverse to autotuned music too. I listen to my music via a digital audio player and I guess I fall into Hufflepuff House since I rarely use its equalizer controls except when needed to compensate for the headphones I'm using. As an example, when using a set of Koss PortaPro I used the equalizer to reduce the bass since the headphones strongly enhanced it. But I don't use them specifically to alter the sound of the music itself.

 

Personally, I think it's kind of ridiculous to have to "train" yourself to like something that you naturally don't. a lot of people say that if you don't listen to everything flat, you're not listening properly. What a crock of ****. Do you go around eating all the foods you don't like in an effort to enjoy them? Why not eat what you like, seasoned the way you like it?

Such is the world of music for me. If I can tweak something a little to enjoy it more and suit my taste, that's what I'm gonna do. What's the point in sitting and listening to something you don't enjoy the sound of, simply because it's supposed to be the "right" way?

I'll decide what's right for me, thanks. How many times have I read around here that If you think it sounds good, then it is good.

Exactly!

 

And your speakers are perfectly flat, with impedance characteristics perfectly in sync with amplification, with a perfectly flat room response? All of your CD's are perfect transfers from original studio masters, recorded exactly as the artist intended?

I have tone controls, leave them in 'defeat' mode, but when I need them I'm glad to have them.

The removal of tone controls, in my estimation, is a ploy to sell amps with 'fixed' voicing, and a ploy for taking advantage of the ever-changing needs of the audiophile to keep 'upgrading' up and across the chain for products offering little material difference other than voicing variations. I'm looking at you Naim, Rega, etc.

 

I think it's also a trick to make the products appeal to purists, who cannot stand tone controls even if they can be bypassed.

 

The same people who would leave it alone instead of trying with KY

 

Perhaps relief for some who might have an anxiety attack trying to dial in the right sound.

 

I don't want to hear "what the artist intended" or "what the recording engineer intended" or what whoever intended. I listen to classical music, and I want to hear the closest approach possible to the sound of unamplified acoustic instruments in a concert hall. Unless you've listened to a lot of classical recordings--from the earliest days on--you may not understand how wide-ranging the tonal balances of recordings are. Hence, my tone controls and the free use I make of them--when they are needed.

I often see people who say that those who use tone controls should listen to better recordings. Well, Sviatoslav Richter's "Pictures," recorded live in Sofia, is not going to get any better any time soon. And he's not going to re-record it from the grave. But I love it, and I will listen to it. Sometimes I think that the anti-tone-control folks must live in a perfect world where all recordings are perfectly balanced. That's not the world I live in, but if it's your world, I am absolutely green with envy.
-Bob

 

Never once have I felt the need for tone controls in a properly treated room, just saying. If you are in a untreated room, you cannot tell, other than dodgy comparison to something else, if that "harsh" high end or whatever is the pressing your listening to, or a reflection issue in your enviroment.

 

My pre has loudness controls but every time I've used them (at very low volume) I've turned them back off. Things just sound better to my ears without them.

 

I skipped Rega for an integrated amp and got NAD instead because of the tone controls, which can be bypassed. I am sensitive to treble distortion and there's certain recording I own which are badly recorded or compressed in the treble frequencies. Without tone controls I could not listen to these musically satisfying but less-than-great sounding recordings.

 

Even if you don't use tone controls I really don't see the benefit to owning a unit without them when quality amps have easy ways to bypass them. Bragging rights?

 

I have found a good tube amp has great bass even at low volumes while solid state amps need the loudness boost.

 

For me it is the opposite. Since my opinion of the tone adjustments usually provided is that they are to broad in effect, often use circuit design and components that alter the signal in ways other than frequency and are included not as performance options but an after thought to the design. If I find the need for frequency adjustment, I will get a separate device (equalizer) that will let me better resolve the frequencies being altered and provide some choice to the quality of the unit. This is just my personal approach. To each their own and we all should do what makes us happy with the music.

 

Well I've had my Naim amp for 28 years and never considered a new component. In fact I was recently asked about insurance for my system if I had a break in, I'm pretty sure I'd buy the same Naim equipment secondhand. Although I would buy a better CD player.

 

A side benefit of using a vintage receiver/integrated with tone controls and loudness switches is that they usually come with mono switches.

 

I listen to nearly everything flat, but would be frustrated if I didn't have any way to alter the tone a bit to suit certain records.

I have an Allman Brothers record that sounds a bit muddy - not enough high end generally - but with a little push of the treble EQ - it's easily listenable to me. Without that option, I probably wouldn't want to listen to it at all, and would probably end up buying another copy just to get more treble.

 

Amen to that bro !!

 

Not sure how I responded before so a repost since the thread was dig up.

My gear has tone controls but I don't need them. They are bypassed.
The room was methodically treated over a long time by measuring frequency sweeps and targeted treatments in the correct positions, aka where they produce the greatest benefit.
I also use a sub that was painstakingly blended into the system. Again ruining a lot of sweeps to get things as best as I could.

Once everything was set correctly I have no need to adjust anything.
Is it seasoned? Yes, I like a little bit of my own house curve. Flat was not for me. But it is seasoned once to a base then everything else plays off that base. For example, Purple Rain still sounds bright but not annoyingly.

To continue the food analogy, does it make sense to bath vegetables in butter every meal to make them suit your pallet? No, you should learn to enjoy them as they come mostly because it is better for you. The less the manipulation the better. Same with tone controls.

I am fine avoiding things I don't like. There is so much out there to enjoy that fits your pallet why mess with the stuff you don't like? I've never liked melons. I try them once in a while but mainly avoid them. Would I like them better with garlic, butter , and brown sugar? Maybe but why bother.
I like Metallica too, but I can't listen to Death Magnetic. Why bother. If they want me to listen to it they need to fix it.

 

Yeah, but it's pretty easy to outdo vintage built-in phono stages with today's external ones, but there's no modern alternative to the mono switch. If I had to use Y-cables I'd probably never listen in mono again.

 

No, I do not think all recordings are perfectly balanced. I do think, however, that I am ill-equipped to re-imagine what the mastering engineer and producer should have done better and then repair it with a simple tone control.

For what it's worth, my preamp hasn't tone controls nor even a balance control. It has separate left and right volume controls. And a mono switch! Less is more. I defend, however, anyone's belief that more is more.

 

You aren't adjusting the mix, for chrissakes. You are adjusting the tonal balance to potentially get closer to what was intended, factoring in significant room and speaker variances on your end. When that Nait was voiced at the factory they couldn't possible take into account how it would sound in your specific environment.

 

How do you, the listener, know what was intended?

 

I've been in a recording studio before. The engineer didn't just have one set of speakers, he had three different sets of varying qualities which he used to mix towards a happy medium. I really don't think that most engineers are quite as anally militant as to what they "intend" as most audiophiles are. A pragmatically minded one understands that every setup is different and will never perfectly emulate in a living room what it sounds like in his booth. As far as I'm concerned an endless pursuit to achieving total audio purity is a lost cause. It's a great way to waste money that could be used to pursue better things in life.

 

What I meant is that the goal of life or realistic-sounding music isn't always the goal. As you point out, engineers use two or three types of playback monitoring because they are thinking of the end-user. Many recordings are engineered to just sound good on the radio or TV, and that sound is built into the recording. No amount of user EQ or tone adjustment in those cases is going to help. So, why bother? One might actually get some enjoyment from them if they just play them flat...as intended.

However, there is nothing wrong with tweaking to taste. Free choice still exists for this. I had a tough stance earlier in this thread, but now I just don't care what people do. Personally, I prefer the cleanest path from the source to my ears as I can afford, and I want to hear what the mastering engineer intended for me to hear.

Steve Hoffman puts a lot of work into giving us the sound he wants us to hear, right? Why dink with it? I did that with his Heart's Greatest Hits CD. I thought it was dull, and, maybe it is, but I tried all kinds of ways to make it sound like it usually does when most engineers follow the EQ moves on the tape box. I did that, but then went back to the way it was mastered: flat from the tapes, and, it sounds quite good as is. Not what we're used to, but good. But, if one doesn't like it, they can either tweak to taste, or stick with the standard issue CD.