The Feuding Zappas

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Jeff Kent, Apr 29, 2016.

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  1. vince

    vince Stan Ricker's son-in-law

    Uh, huh... and, I want it before, as Frank put it in "Ruben & The Jets", "..before there's nothing left to sit on".
     
  2. dlokazip

    dlokazip Forum Transient

    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    The founder of the Mexican fan club weighs in:

    [​IMG]
     
    izgoblin, danner, vince and 3 others like this.
  3. oxegen

    oxegen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    I agree with Chris De Voe on this one. The percentage to be paid remains unclear.

    I hope these guys can resolve their issues soon.
     
    Chris DeVoe likes this.
  4. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    Ahmet doesn't mention that Diva seems to be on his side, either.
     
  5. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe RIP Vickie Mapes Williams (aka Equipoise)

    I seem to recall that the Zappanale Festival used the term "exorbitant" to describe the fee that the ZFT was demanding to be paid for the use of Frank's image as well.
     
  6. DrBeatle

    DrBeatle The Rock and Roll Chemist

    Location:
    Midwest via Boston
    Not sure how they are "required" to rectify this according to that Mexican fan club guy. He may wish they would, but they don't HAVE to. (Unless it's an artifact of translation?)
     
    Lost In The Flood likes this.
  7. gd0

    gd0 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies

    Location:
    Golden Gate
    Run with that.

    They're just disappointed and concerned, like other fans.

    The Vault is chugging along.

    For now.
     
    majorlance and DrBeatle like this.
  8. Rfreeman

    Rfreeman Senior Member

    Location:
    Lawrenceville, NJ
    ZFT fails to get that charging less for mark usage and products will more successfully keep his name and music circulating more widely for a longer period which will inure to the benefit of their heirs.

    You don't get more eggs by slicing open the golden goose (reference for ChrisDV)
     
  9. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe RIP Vickie Mapes Williams (aka Equipoise)

    True, but a nicely roasted golden goose makes a festive centerpiece for any family holiday dinner.
     
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  10. gd0

    gd0 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies

    Location:
    Golden Gate
    Translation: "I want Lower Prices."

    Don't we all. I doubt your, or my, Marketing Plans For ZFT would put them over the top.

    It's a labor-intensive business, with likely more than a few Hollywood players, from various industries, buzzing the ZFT IP beehive (sorry Beyonce), with more than a few proposals, business plans and movie deals.

    All far removed from normal people with normal incomes.

    Buying Zappa has never been cheap, and likely won't be going forward. At least the UMe remasters are priced right. I'm sure ZFT will endure long after I, or my wallet, expire.
     
    vince and dlokazip like this.
  11. Scope J

    Scope J Senior Member

    Location:
    Michigan
    • An Open Letter to My Brother
      AhmetZappa·Wednesday,May4, 2016
      Dweezil,
      Strange to be writing this in public, but I don't know how else to respond. After reading the
      article in The New York Times, I'm not sure how else to reach you. If we talk through our
      lawyers, it's not because I want that. It's because you've refused to talk any other way. I've been
      reaching out to you for months. I even tried to set up a family meeting so we could discuss all of
      our family issues, but you repeatedly said you couldn't fit it into your schedule, and that you
      weren't available to attend without your lawyers present. Instead, you've given this incomplete,
      misleading story to the NYT and the media, and invited the whole world to take sides about our
      family business. Now, we're becoming "that family" – the spoiled brats arguing in public about
      who deserves what. I understand you're hurting and angry. We all are. But the more we fight
      about this in the press, the worse it gets for all of us. We're not gaining anything by doing this in
      public. If you're not willing to talk to me, though, I don't know what else to do. The New York
      Times has a story about a version of me that isn't based on facts or reality, and I don't know how
      else to set the record straight – or get you to talk to me – except to write this here, where people
      can form opinions by reading what I said for themselves. If you want to share private facts and
      legal documents, we can do that too, because honestly, we both know what'll happen: it will give
      everyone a complete picture of what's happening. Not the distorted one that's out there now,
      which makes it look like this is about business crushing art, or me being a greedy ******* who
      wants to take away your rights. I don't know how else to start, so I'll just respond to a few things
      I've read:
      1. The article claims that you're no longer allowed to perform under the name
      Zappa Plays Zappa.
      Not true, and we both know it. I have never asked you to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to
      use the ZPZ name. You've only been told that you can't keep using the name without agreeing to
      a fee of $1 per year, which you're fully aware of, but never mentioned in your interviews. I'll
      come back to that in a second. But just so everyone is clear:
      Fact: You can absolutely keep touring under the name Zappa Plays Zappa.
      You could do it tomorrow, and honestly, I hope you will. You’re a ****ing guitar god and in my
      opinion one of the best guitar players in the world. You do an amazing job playing our father's
      music with total integrity. Your tours help keep Frank's name alive, just like the work Gail and I
      have done through the ZFT. This isn't about your tours, or art, or even about you. This is about
      the way the Trust was set up ages ago: if any of us use the "Zappa Plays Zappa" name for
      commercial purposes, a share of the profit goes back to the ZFT, to cover the high costs involved
      in maintaining the business and releasing more of Frank's content for the fans. Period. The point
      is: No one is stopping you from using the name, as long as you follow the exact same rules as the
      rest of us. And before anyone starts thinking that we're trying to screw you, let's talk about fees
      again.

    • 2. The article claims that if you perform without paying the ZFT an "exorbitant
      fee," you'll be charged up to $150,000 for each song you play.
      Again, not even close to true. Honestly, this was the part that really hurt, because now a lot of
      Frank's fans think I'm some greedy dude who's just in this for the money. Can't blame them. It
      sounds like blackmail. Like I don't want you to be able to play Frank's music. If I read that article
      without knowing the rest of the facts, I'd think I was a greedy ******* too. It's just not true.
      Personally, I don't think the fee Gail asked for was exorbitant. If you want, we can share the
      exact terms with the public, instead of just asking them to take our word for it. But even if the
      price was too high, it doesn't matter anymore, because I didn't want it to be an issue for you.
      That's why I suggested a workaround. So, if you're going to share family business with the whole
      world, I wish you'd tell them the whole story:
      Fact: The "exorbitant fee" you're now being asked to pay the ZFT, to keep using
      Frank's name and performing his songs, is $1 per year.
      That's not because the ZFT needs that money. I think we can live without an extra buck every
      year. It's because that token payment handles the legal requirement. Even though I thought the
      original fee was reasonable, I wanted to find a way to get us past this. And again, it's not just
      you: it's all four of us. If I want to perform Frank's music, I'll pay $1. So will Diva and Moon.
      That's just the deal, and I think it's a pretty reasonable solution. One dollar, man. It doesn't seem
      like The New York Times knew that part. And that's what hurts. If I was the greedy, deceitful
      ******* I'm reading about, I wouldn't be working this hard to find a way to make everyone happy.
      3. The article suggests that this is all happening suddenly, that I'm changing the
      terms of your deal with the ZFT, and that you're being singled out.
      Again, none of this is true. First, this isn't sudden or new. That was always the deal Gail put in
      place – not just for you, but all of us. Gail's decision was always that any of us who want to use
      the name – you, me, Moon, Diva – can perform under that name. But be honest: Frank Zappa's
      legacy isn't something we built, and "Zappa Plays Zappa" isn't a name that any one of us "owns"
      or has special claim to. We all got the same name at birth, and as the four beneficiaries of the
      ZFT, we all have an equal right to benefit from that name. That's why Gail decided that any
      Zappa using the name "Zappa Plays Zappa" would pay a percentage of profits to the ZFT, where
      it could keep the family business going. That rule doesn't just apply to you. It's for all four of us.
      A lot of people don't seem to realize this, but when you pay that fee – not even up front, but with
      a share of the profits you made performing our dad's music, and selling merchandise with his
      picture and name – it's not like it goes into my pocket. Most of it goes to the ZFT, so we can
      afford to keep remastering and releasing more of Frank's music to the fans, and building the
      business. I know the business side of Frank's legacy is less romantic than going out and touring
      with the music, but it's pretty damn important to me, and to the fans. It's also pretty damn
      expensive – and takes a ton of work. That's why Gail told us we have to sell the house: because
      she knew how much it would cost to maintain the catalog, work out deals with distributors, and
      get more content out to fans. Gail spent most of what we had just fighting to make sure we'd
      keep the rights to Frank's catalog. And when the ZFT does have profits, we split them between
      the four of us. I'm getting enough heat on social media that I'm betting a lot of people don't
    • realize that you also receive funds from the ZFT. Even when you do pay fees to use the Zappa
      name, and sell Zappa merchandise, you receive a portion of the profits from it. ___________ I
      could say more, but it still feels weird to be saying all of this in public, especially when it feels
      like everyone is hoping for more drama. But, if I keep seeing inaccurate and misleading articles
      about what's happening, I don't know what you want me to do. Pretend it's true? Can't do that.
      Again, if you won't talk to me about this, and want to work things out in public, we can. Privacy
      has always been important in our family, but that doesn't mean I have anything to hide. I just
      don't see how it helps anything to get the media and the public to take sides, especially when
      they don't have all the facts.
      If you're willing to talk – and not just through a lawyer – I hope you'll call me. Your Brother,
      Ahmet
     
    vince likes this.
  12. Rfreeman

    Rfreeman Senior Member

    Location:
    Lawrenceville, NJ
    Higher prices are saving me money anyway. Cured me of my completist tendencies.
     
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  13. GuidedByJonO)))

    GuidedByJonO))) Forum Resident

    Location:
    Evanston
    I just want to know where Marc Maron and Lisa Loeb land on this.
     
    vince likes this.
  14. bRETT

    bRETT Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    I think a lot of Ahmet's arguments made sense, but this sure doesn't. Dweezil isn't trading on the Zappa name-- He's trading on the fact that he has a virtuoso band playing incredibly well rehearsed versions of Zappa material. I don't see anyone else in the family taking the effort to do that. (I DID see Project Object doing that, but that's another argument...)
     
  15. bluesbro

    bluesbro Forum Hall of Shame

    Location:
    DC
    That's the crux of the biscuit the way I see it Barry.

    I dont care if any other band is denied the right to play Zappa's music. But Dweezil was Frank's kid, he played with his Dad live an on record. He shouldnt pay diddly to play his dad's music. I dont care if Gail said so, she wasnt God.
     
  16. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    So if Dweezil learns and performs FZ's music he should make all the money from those performances, correct?

    So if Diva starts a company making FZ-themed tshirts she should make all the money from any sales, correct?
     
  17. bluesbro

    bluesbro Forum Hall of Shame

    Location:
    DC
    If they were my brother and sister, I would say 'go ahead bro and sis, Im proud of ya!'

    Family first, money second
     
  18. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Then what does get split among all four ZFT beneficiaries?
     
  19. ArpMoog

    ArpMoog Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit
    So Dweezil spent all that time and energy learning to play the guitar,learn and rehearse Franks material, take it on the road being away from his family
    and he gets 25 % of the cut ? That makes Ahmet sound kinda disingenuous does it not ? One dollar to use the name is the emphasis but down in the article
    a four way split for the shows is that correct ? If so the guy that is doing all the work should be grim.
    Am I understanding this right ?
     
  20. progrocker

    progrocker Senior Member

    He may have been a "practical" conservative but he certainly wasn't a "social" one. :pineapple:
     
  21. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe RIP Vickie Mapes Williams (aka Equipoise)

    It's times like this when I'm profoundly grateful my mom and dad didn't leave me one red cent.
     
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  22. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    And like I said, if Ahmet works 8-5 every day on running the business, working on remasters, facilitating whatever for the ZFT, does he only get 25%?

    It's not like the ZFT wants to split the profits of Dweezil ZAPPA's solo projects.
     
  23. Rfreeman

    Rfreeman Senior Member

    Location:
    Lawrenceville, NJ
    What percent is split is unclear. And split has nothing to do with whether or not he plays Franks music, only with whether he uses ZPZ name and other marks. Hence it is an easy decision for Dweez. Don't use the name or marks and tell Ahmet to stuff it. Which is what he did.
     
    marblesmike likes this.
  24. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    THANK YOU
     
  25. GuidedByJonO)))

    GuidedByJonO))) Forum Resident

    Location:
    Evanston
    My question is, considering how long Frank has been gone and how (seemingly) well the process ran before Gail died, how did they not have some of these provisions ready to do? Such a mess, shame to see.
     
    DrBeatle likes this.
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