Wilson Sasha, Magico S series, B&W 800 series

Correction - I mean the chap from Audio Note of course. The home demo I have set up at the moment is with Audio Note rather than ATC.

 

I have probably heard those very same speakers then! At the last two hifi shows here in Copenhagen, AN has demoed E HE/Spe's in slate. In fact, I think they coupled a lot better to the room the second time around, so maybe they weren't broken in the first time. For looks I prefer them in wood veneer, though.

I brought my brother in law, and I had a hard time convincing him that there wasn't a subwoofer in the system :-D

 

@eb24 you need to check out some EVA Automation speakers!

 

What kind of music do you play? I find the Meishu to be a little too gentle for my taste and wonder if you can get the Jinro or separates like the M2/M3 preamps with Empress 2A3 (which combined is about the price of the Meishu). I find if you play harder hitting stuff the Meishu isn't really up for it in an attack sense - no knock on the Meishu - I pretty much feel that way about all 300B SET amps that I have heard.

Some love the ethereal nature of them though and they can be astounding but astounding on a narrower set of music genres IMO. ALthough hell they've been selling em for something like 25 years so I suppose people love them.

ATC is a completely different sound to the AN's. I must say I really like the sound of ATC which strikes a good balance across the board of old fashion looks, high impact sound, musical considering they're pro monitors. I bought my Line Magnetic 219IA based on auditions with ATC 100 and indeed the dealer is a Zu Audio speaker dealer which is geared for SET but I kept getting the guy to set up ATC because they just sounded better in spite of the lower power amp.

You have to block out the internet babble - you established that on sound ATC is the king of the hill so far. You have your "Reference Preference" as I like to say.

Now it's up to the rest of the field to see if any can dethrone them. It doesn't matter if some people tell you something else is better - whatever they say is NOT better just because they point to some guy on some forum that likes XYZ more than ATC. You are the person who decides that. And there is a thing called room synergy which a lot of folks don't seem to get. The fact that Joe likes speaker X more than ATC in his room with his gear doesn't mean X will beat the ATC in your room with your gear.

Unfortunately, people don't seem to get that the front end equipment makes the most important difference if not the biggest difference. Garbage in, garbage out. No speaker can fix what is fed to them. So a speaker that may sound lesser may in fact be the better speaker in that it is passing on lesser information and you are hearing more weaknesses through it.

I was just thinking back to a comparison I made with the AN K versus an E. The The AN K had the silver wires and a SS amp and the combination was ear bleeding dredge. I put that same amp on the AN E (copper wired) and it sounded quite good. I then put the OTO on the K and the K system beat the AN E hands down - then put the OTO on the E and the E won hands down. The copper wiring is more forgiving than silver. The OTO was the trump card over the SS regardless of speakers - this held true as well with the SORO on Magnepan, Quad, B&W as well. Even speakers that I didn't much like fared better with the SET/SEP amps.

If you can also run that Meishue on the ATC. And see how they do at low levels - what you noted as a weakness before you may feel differently about after.

 

I will check about the separates. Will do the demo as suggested by AN first, that should give a good sense for the type of sound I will be getting. If I like it I will dig deeper.

In other news, I will get a pair of ATC100s plus their top range preamp for home demo tomorrow. Good times!

 

Definitely check the DeVore Orangutan O/96's if your doing a whirlwind tour of speakers.

 

I would - but can't get a hold of em here in London. So need to pass unfortunately.

 

Of course you can't find them in London, one should go to the african jungle to experience orangutans
now that I wrote it, I feel ashamed of myself

 

Not sure how close this is to London, but it is at least a UK dealer for DeVore:

GT Audio
5 Upper Road Higher
Denham, Buckinghamshire
United Kingdom. UB9 5EJ
Tel: 01895 833099
Tel: +44 1895 833099 (outside UK)

 

The Meishu and AN E should be representative along with one of their non oversampling CD players. I was just being picky because the HK dealer carries a lot of different amps and you can go back and forth between several of them. But you are getting the HE version of the speaker and I forgot that the dealer in HK has the non HE version which may be why the Meishu is a bit polite.

Regardless of sound - please take a photo of the slate speaker - there are no many photos on the net and my intention is to get the AN E/Spx AlniCo Hemp version of this speaker and the Slate looks cool but the photos are not the best that I've seen so far. Even if you don't care for them. AN is kinda weak about photos. It seems like the dealers are taking the really good pictures. But slate is uncommon. Costs a bit more apparently to get them

 

You should be ashamed, but only because Orangutans aren't African, they're found in Sumatra and Borneo.

 

Thanks for the great write up. To respond to your queries:

Need volume to come alive

From: http://www.tonepublications.com/MAGPDF/TA_073.pdf (about the SCM40A)

"The SCM40As are not speakers for those who listen to music at low volume with the Sunday morning paper. Even in my small 9'x12' listening room, levels below 75dB are uninspiring at best. These speakers are designed to be impactful."

I don't think you are going to change this characteristic with a suitable pre-amp. You will soon know from your home demo whether the volume level is going to be an issue, or not. If your neighbors don't like your new speakers, well, they can just move!


And they dont really do soundstaging

From: ATC SCM50ASLT SPEAKER REVIEW » (about the SCM50A)

"Secondly, while the speakers completely disappear sonically, the soundstage is not as vast in all directions as I have heard. Soundstage champs in a tower configuration such as the Gemme Audio Tanto and the Nola Vipers are clearly superior, but neither have the other virtues of the 50’s in quite the same degree. To be fair, and I am sure Mr. Woodman would contend, that other speakers exaggerate the soundstage to unnatural proportions. That is possible. I’m just reporting the facts."

So, don't expect this to change so much either, though careful placement may help!


Will I love the 50s as well?

ATC has striven for a high level of consistency from model to model, and use the same mid-driver and tweeter in each, so only the bass driver and cabinet volume changes. The larger models go deeper in the bass, of course, and can play at even higher levels, though this is likely to be academic unless you have a very large room (and in that case fitting in the 100s or 150s would not be an issue!). If you like the 100, you will like the 50, the only issue is will you miss the scale having heard the bigger speaker (this may be more noticeable if you were going from the 150 to 50)?

(I believe the 40 uses different drivers to the ones in the 50 and up, hence it has a considerably lower price. You could still consider the 40 if you decide to move down to the 50.)


These are huge.

That's what these guys thought too: ATC SCM 100A review | What Hi-Fi? »

You do not want to see 300s then, is all I can say!

Here are some further thoughts on the SCM50A as well as the pre-amp. you will be auditioning at home:

atc »

Not in phase performance, for reasoning see: Active Amplification | ATC Loudspeakers »

Just pull some microphone cable through!

You make it sound like SF is on the other side of the World! Just jump on 280!!

So, I take it that you actually have not heard any Geithain speakers? They might be a popular topic of discussion on gearslutz, but I can tell you that I have never encountered them in any studio, nor show. Other than German broadcasters, who uses them? They are certainly not among the most renowned full-range monitors. Maybe you are confusing them with Genelec, who are definitely among the best known/most popular. ATC, B&W, PMC, check, you can add the likes of Augspurger, ADAM, Boxer (now out of business) and Quested to the list, but most of these are very large main monitors designed for SOFFIT mounting.

This review: http://www.ips.org.uk/files/09_ME_Geithain_RL901K_Studio_Monitors.pdf suggests that they may well warrant an audition, however, Geithains are designed to be used at a fair distance from the listening position (the 10' mentioned in the review seems consistent with what Geithain recommends -- look at the photo) which might be an issue in smaller UK homes, even allowing for the fact that they can be moved closer to the back wall.

While they have competition in the concentric arena (e.g., Tannoy), I don't know of any other company using this cardioid technique. That would give me pause for thought!

I thought we were at the 'go big, or go home' stage, so it has to be the 100s!

I'll comment on pres. in the dedicated thread.

 

Just remember older 2nd hand gear even from the same company can even sound better & potentially cheaper too & as long it is has been serviced/easily serviceable then happy days.

 

I have the E Alnico/Spx HE hemp, and I find that my Kit One, which uses 300B, manages to provide a lot of slam. In fact, it does heavy electronic music, like Infected Mushrooms, really good at levels loud enough that concerns about protecting my hearing kicks in before the amp runs out of juice. Not exactly what you would expect from this combo. Now, the Kit One is heavily upgraded, all components except for transformers have been replaced with top-shelf stuff.

 

High end nearfield test - Gearslutz.com »

OP went from 40k PMC to Geithain. he also tried quested, ATC, and all usual suspect in his place, after 30 monitors tried, the Geithain were his favorite. Indeed they are less known, but every report of comparison between ATC and the other big names seem to suggest that they are in the same league and often preffered, hence my recommendation. We will see as eb24 will try them! will be very interesting

 

I saw that link the first time. It is just one guy's opinion. As I wrote above, outside of German broadcasters like ARD, I have no idea who else uses them, whereas there are lists miles long of ATC, B&W, Genelec, etc. owners.

 

indeed, they are very less known. Thorsen Loesch also really likes them. They are beginning to get more known after the highend nearfield test and Ive seen many times compared to ATC, Kii three, PMC, Quested, favorably.


Interesting to note : another user ISedlacek at gearslutz have made a similar shoot out and tried dozens of speakers.
Meditating about my new main monitors: Quested V3110, PSI A25 or ? - Gearslutz.com »

Four major Quested monitors - direct comparison - Gearslutz.com »

New Sonodyne SRP line vs PSI vs Quested vs old Sonodyne - impressions - Gearslutz.com »

He have sold his geithain to go with the big Quested after trying PSI, B&W, ect. We will see!

 

Got the ATCs in the house - how can I upload a photo?

Also got an ARC CD9 which I am using as a DAC - have plugged in my macbook using USB, have installed the driver from the ARC website, and then just play tunes simply from the spoitfy / tidal application. Right way to do it? The ARC shows that the sample rate when I play tidal is "48"...

 

You will have to upload to a hosting site and link them from there.

 

It could just be the room here - the speakers are not HE versions nor are the speakers in corners so this drops sensitivity a good 5-7dB. Still I personally preferred the M3-Empress Silver combination which sounded fuller richer and bigger (even though only 7 watts per channel). Guess I'm more of a 2A3 man.

 

You really need to hear a properly setup and broken in pair of AN Es in a corner. They are not at all what you describe. They image amazingly well. I was a little skeptical before I bought mine, but now that they are fully broken in, I am amazed and quite pleased with the imaging as well as the resolution and musicality. These are easily my favourite speakers that I have ever owned and I have had a few over the years (ATC, Thiel, Maggie's, KEF, Opera, Proac).

 

The HE version of the AN E does allow my Meishu to fill my (12X16) listening room with sound. It can pressurize my room nicely (It can be well over safe listening levels!). I will say though, that I would love to hear the amp/preamp combo comparison that you mention. A little more grunt behind the notes would be nice. When I heard the M6 Phono/Tomei Kensei, it had more drive and oomph, which was no surprise given the price difference.

(Side note - will you be in Vancouver for the Audio Show at the end of June?)

 

Unfortunately, I miss out on every US audio show - I may be able to make the CAS show depending when Constantine books the hotels - I have a one month window and I was planning to go to the Star Trek Convention in Las Vegas (50th Anniversary) but it is completely sold out already. I wanted Seven of Nine's autograph and even non Trek fans should know who she is LOL

There is nothing wrong with the Meishu - I think I wrote it badly - I'd take it over umm any SS amplifier I've ever heard at any price from anyone. And it's probably the best 300B I've run across - yes I've heard the Wavac 300B and no I don't think it's better. The Kit 300B is pretty awesome too. It was the Meishue and regular E model that sold me on Audio Note to begin with. Still I do like the more robust sound of their 2A3. Their 45 is also pretty great sounding but then sensitivity really becomes an issue.

Don - the issue with soundstaging is that it's difficult for people to get what they've read about positioning and their eyes out of the equation. Most free standing speakers have gaps in their soundstage - they don't soundstage well outside the boxes and while imaging can be very focused it's not generally widely different. I've noted several reviews of the AN E on soundstaging and people seem to get completely different results - hmm could it be their equipment quality, the recording differences, their room set-up? The E has been described by Peter Breuninger as bettering his $80k MBLs and those thing stage better than almost everything - they're omni-directional! A Soundstage reviewer noted AN's as being panoramic in staging (ie; massive) and then Art Dudley said they were a little "vague". Well gee look at their rooms - Art's is small and made out of wood. Peter has space off the sides, the positive feedback guy had Magnepans which stage well and he note the ANs were even bigger.

There's only so much any of us can do with the room - and like component compromises the room forces some of the compromises on us as well. I live in HK where the rooms are long rectangles similar to concrete Winnebago. I have half a corner in that 1/3 of the speaker has a corner (fortunately above the ports) but above that there is 2 feet and behind them is a window (typhoon grade fortunately so they are probably stronger than North American wood walls...still it's not perfect.

 

Who are you talking to? This seems like an odd response to the various discussions of different rooms and amplifiers and speakers.