Denon Tonearm Lubrication

I've posted issues on my Denon DP-60L turntable some time ago, but haven't been able to figure this out. Even dropped a few hundred bucks having this turntable set up by an expert for the issue to remain, albeit it sporadically at the time. The tracking force seems to vary wildly and the tonearm skates across the record at will. I have a feeling that the tonearm needs to be lubricated and is "hanging up" every time I drop the needle.

I used a Shure tracking gauge and the weight seemed to fluctuate each time I checked it. As the Shure is largely mechanical, I bought a digital tonearm scale to be 100% sure what the tracking force is. It varied with each individual check, as widely as a full gram on some occasions. For comparison purposes, I have a cheap-o Sanyo turntable that has an Audio Technica cart on it from back in the 90s that hasn't been used since. With a few simple adjustments, the Sanyo plays pretty much flawlessly and tracks correctly. I checked the tracking weight on it 5-6 times in a row and each time was within 1/100 of a gram. Essentially dead on.

I've seen a few people online complain of tonearm issues with Denons. As they age, they need more maintenance. Some have suggested lubrication, some have said that it doesn't need it and shouldn't be done at all. In all cases, it references parts under the table where the bearings are. I believe I've narrowed my issue to the "hinge" where the tonearm lifts up and down, not underneath the table. I don't know what this is called, so I'm having some issues searching for the correct part name. The manual doesn't mention it by name. I've attached a link to a picture below (I guess we're unable to embed pics anymore? I guess I haven't been around here in a while).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3sX4sMJxeh0am1uY2pMemtWM0E/view?usp=sharing

Thanks!

 

Sounds like the tone arm wiring is causing an issue. How are the wires fed through the pivot point and underneath?

 

Tonearm bearings should never be lubricated as shown. If there is a lift mechanism it may need lubrication/adjustmant. Otherwise the vertical bearing may be damaged or need adjustment.

 

Picture at the link below. If needed, I can turn the table over and remove the base cover and show you from another angle if needed. In looking more closely, it doesn't appear that there's that much if any room for it to drag, but we are talking grams here, so it's possible.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3sX4sMJxeh0SlNyQV9nOUFRRDA/view?usp=sharing

In what I'm looking at (shared in the previous photos and one above), it doesn't appear that bearings are part of the equation. Lift mechanism is electronic, so that might make things more complicated than a standard lever.

 

Metalbob have you ever gotten any cleaners like glass cleaner or fantastic or 409 around the arm when dusting? If everything feels mechanically smooth, try 3 drops of lighter fluid from eyedropper on left and right pivots shown in photo.

 

Sorry for the delayed response, I was traveling all week on business. I've had the turntable for 10 years and the friend I bought it from I believe was the original owner, buying it new in the early 80s. To my knowledge, no cleaners or household products were ever used to clean it, especially the area near the tonearm.

Specific to your recommendation, the tonearm otherwise feels and appears to operate perfectly fine. I will try the lighter fluid solution today, but will need to buy some as I don't have any laying around. I am a little concerned about getting it in the tiny space with an eye dropper. Doesn't seem like it would get in the right spots so easily.

 

Quick follow up on this. The lighter fluid appears to have worked so far! The design of the tonearm makes it challenging to not only get anything in the small crevice, but even from above due to the bar of metal over the top. Anyway, I dressed the area with paper towels and did what I could to get lighter fluid in the front and back on both sides of the tonearm. The paper towels caught anything that I may have missed and I did a wipe down on the rest. After checking the tracking weight probably 50-100 times, gently lifting the tonearm as high as it will go and then back down, seems like the lighter fluid eventually worked it's way in. The weight was more consistent after a while, +/- .2 grams, and records tracked all the way through with the exception of one that had a weird skip at the end of the dead wax that pushed the needle back to the beginning of the deadwax. Could be the way the record was cut or someone scratched it.

Would it make sense to give it another round of lighter fluid, but work it in a little faster as what I applied may have started to dry quickly? My thinking is that it was just beginning to loosen up dust, etc. that's built up in there and having the fluid still be wet seems most helpful.

 

Following up on this after a week or so and not using the turntable during that time due to vacation. Seems like the original problem is back, arguably worse than before. Not sure if this needs more lighter fluid or it's another issue entirely. I just checked the tracking weight many times until it was in the ballpark, played a record and it tracked fine to the end. Checked the weight afterwards and it was significantly higher than when I dropped the needle on the record. The challenging part is figuring out where zero actually is on this tonearm as it's so all over the place.

A previous post recommended taking a look at wiring hanging up the tonearm, but if that is indeed the cause, I'm not sure how to remedy it. One thing I do notice is that in repeated checks on tracking weight, many times, I notice the weight count start at a high number and gradually work it's way down .1-.2g each time. I'm tempted to buy a smaller jeweler's screwdriver and remove the tonearm to clean the suspected area, but that could be opening a huge can of worms.

 

Seems like i'm the only one responding to my own thread, but I think I've finally figured this out. I've been fiddling with this turntable off and on for a couple years without being able to figure out what the issue was. Seems like a combination of suggestions from a number of different forums have cleared this up. Gimbal screws were likely too tight, but also dirty at the same time

On the left side, for some reason, the outer screw on the left side won't overlap the smaller screw with enough clearance for a larger screwdriver to get in there. I managed to get it loose by turning the smaller screw and decided, what the heck, to take it off completely. I ultimately removed both screws and the entire tonearm. I brought in a brighter light and took a closer look.

The pivot points (I think there's tiny bearings in there?) had a little bit of crud in there. It might be the first time these things have seen air since it was manufactured. Anyway, I dabbed a bit of lighter fluid on with a Q tip and immediately saw a little bit of crud come off onto the white tip. I couldn't find a toothpick, so I gently removed more crud with the tip of a bamboo skewer. Wiped it with the Q-tip again and it looked fairly clean on both sides afterwards. I put the tonearm back in place and gently centered it while tightening the two tiny screws. It was originally slightly off center before I started this. I added the outer screws, put the S tonearm and cartridge back on.

In checking the tonearm weight, for some reason, it was tracking really heavy after all this. This cartridge (Denon DL-103) tracks at 2.5g, but it was tipping the scales at around 4g. I backed the counter weight off a bit, but I couldn't get the weight down. I moved the weight ring back enough so I could get the tonearm somewhere in the ballpark of 2.5g. Problem is that it's now at the very end of the weigh assembly (pic below). Not sure how to fix this. I also have the other tonearm ring which I think is heavier, not sure, but I can use that if needed.

Anyway, I'm currently tracking at around 2.67g with a +/- of roughly .1g either way. Mostly in the heavier direction. This is the closest this thing has come to normal in years. The only other minor issue is that in moving the tonearm, I have a little bit of slack in the wiring underneath it. I'm going to have to remove the base and gently pull it back down again.

I'm in the home stretch. I think...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3sX4sMJxeh0RldVYWRCWm9nR0U/view

 

metalbob,

I am not sure you will see this but I have just taken my DP 60L out of storage after 25 years and am experiencing a similar problem to the one you describe. Was the method you describe in you 10/14 post a good long term fix. Any info would be most appreciated.

Ted5555

 

I got so frustrated with this thing for years - even paid a highly regarded tech to fix it - and it was never right. I almost bought another table until I saw a video of a guy on YouTube raving about it and it actually appreciated in value from when I bought it (used). I new I had to fix it.

I used a bit of lighter fluid, that's it. I dropped some in the sides of the based of the tonearm (recommend lining the area with paper towels or a rag as lighter fluid can get a bit messy if you try this) with an eye dropper. Worked somewhat intermittently, but not very well. I got so frustrated, I literally took the entire tonearm out of the base. Unscrewed it and everything. I cleaned out the bearings with a Q-tip of lighter fluid and removed a little bit of dried lube that was in there. I think either the lube, the tightness of the screws where it pivots or both were the cause. Not sure, but I've had no real tracking issues since. If you take it apart, the one thing I neglected to remember was to gently pull the slack of the tiny wires into the base and had to reassemble all over again. If they get jammed up or drag underneath in the slightest, they'll throw off the tracking weight.

Just curious, what year was this model launched? I believe it was the early 80s from what I've read, but the friend I bought it from about 12 years ago wasn't so sure. I thought he was the original owner, but he thinks he may have bought it more recently, maybe 90s.

 

Thank you so much for the update! The documents on the turntable I have are marked as printed in 1981. I have seen items on line that allude to 1980 as well so I feel pretty comfortable that the model dates from that 80/81 period. I do not know how many years it was in Denon's lineup.

It makes total sense that after 25 years in storage that any lubrication that was in the gimbal would have dried out. Thank you again.

 

From what I can find on the internet, it was only manufactured in the year 1980, but judging the by the info I can find about the other TTs in its line, I think it may have been manufactured as late as 1983. I have a 230V model dating from 1980.

 

The naptha (lighter fluid), is just a light petroleum solvent. It is OK for assisting cleaning, but it will quickly evaporate and leave behind the original gummy lube (which becomes gooey because, over the years, the lighter molecules in the bearing oil evaporate and leave behind the more complex petroleum molecules (that have more in common with asphalt or tar).

The recommended Technics SFWO 010 bearing oil (Anderol 465) is available in little tubes from kabusa.com. If you want something locally, I've had good success in substituting synthetic transmission fluid for light oils like this - it is very aggressive at dissolving old crud and lubricates also, it just can be tenaciously messy if you drip it. A pharmacy will sell you a few syringes so you can place the drops where you need them. It is more chemically refined than the old lubes, so it won't dry out. I've revitalized several gummed up Selectric typewriters for good with the stuff.

 

Metalbob,

YOU ROCK!!! After carefully reading your note and re-reading your past notes I put my DP 60L on the bench. The bearings for movement in the vertical plane on the tonearm we very sticky. I used a small screw driver to lightly unlock the outside bearing (rightmost as you face the TT) and voila. It completely freed the vertical movement of the tonearm. I was able to balance the arm, adjust tracking and anti-skate in about 5 minutes. It is back on the rack and just played beautiful vinyl for the first time in 25 years. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!!

Ted5555