Madonna's Prince Tribute At The 2016 Billboard Music Awards

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by sunspot42, May 22, 2016.

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  1. eileen

    eileen Forum Resident

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    I would tweak that a bit in that the issue is less her attempt to appeal with new material, rather it's the obvious pandering with all kinds of dog whistle black / youth symbols. Exhibit A, the hideous gold grill. Nobody gave flack to Cher about being an ancient sea hag when Believe hit - they were too busy buying the record and dancing to it. If a Madonna song works, it'll work on its own. It's all the non-music symbols she is desperately flapping around that scream exactly the message you noted: she has serious issues with getting older. Nobody wants to see their old man devolve to the convertible, gold medallion necklace, unbuttoned shirt.
     
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  2. mine82

    mine82 Forum Resident

    She was also viciously attacked for the Grammy performance for no real reason.

    Before Sex and Erotica she didn't use her sex appeal or shown more skin that much, not relative to anybody else. The early 90's is when that really started in a way that it stuck out. Specifically between LAP and Erotica and the latter album was the one hurt by it as a consequence. Cher and Tina Turner while older than Madonna were showing at least as much skin as she did in the 80's.

    Madonna would have never had the career she has if it wasn't for the music and the fact she is so involved with the creative process.
     
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  3. mine82

    mine82 Forum Resident

    The point is those were the first two singles so you can deduce who she was trying to appeal.
     
  4. Thom

    Thom Forum Resident

    Yes. :agree: That sums up the identity crisis issue I was talking about. She doesn't seem to know who she is as an artist anymore. She's co-opting all sorts of images and identities, and they're just not her. Transparently so. She's not fooling anyone, and it's wearing thin. I think she just has to re-think what the next stage of her career is, and map out a way forward that doesn't involve pandering to trends, or youth culture. That's the past for her. It's not the end of the world, or doesn't have to be. She can still make a major statement by doing an album that addresses what it's like to be a woman, a pop cultural icon no less, almost 60, in a business that's notoriously tough (and unfair) on women at that age. That would be more honest than the MDNA/Rebel Heart phase of her career has been.
     
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  5. barnaby

    barnaby Forum Resident


    Sure that's why I think her main strength is her songs really. She has an amazing pop music legacy. Really great songs all along the way.
     
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  6. barnaby

    barnaby Forum Resident


    On the other hand, isn't it possible that her attitude in itself is quite a statement against that business? Kind of "Yeah I'm getting older but I still do it the way I always did it and the way I want to so f*** you"?
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2016
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  7. Thom

    Thom Forum Resident

    Well, Madonna did present an image of female sexuality that was very subversive and controversial in 1984/85 (Like A Virgin). It wasn't so much about showing skin or using her sex appeal in traditional ways (as you say, her contemporaries were already doing that), it was how she used her sex appeal that had people talking. How she took ownership of it was shocking (to the people of 1984/85).
    But I'm not questioning your second point in the slightest. Madonna not be such an icon if not for the quality of her work.
     
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  8. Thom

    Thom Forum Resident

    That's a very good question. It is possible. I don't know. I suspect that would be what Madonna thinks.
     
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  9. barnaby

    barnaby Forum Resident


    Let's ask her and hear what she had to say about it more than 20 years ago. ;)

     
  10. mine82

    mine82 Forum Resident

    It's not really uncharted territory. Tina Turner was at the height of her success from her 40's through her 50's concluding her last stadium tour promoting a record at 60 and did a sold out arena tour at 69. Her trick was to center her career from the late 80's on out of the US to Europe where her age was less of an issue and she sold out stadiums and her records charted far better here.
    Then there's Cher of course.
    Madonna has the advantage over them because she co-writes her stuff which is essential for a recording career in her position.

    I guess labels don't like popstars with long careers because they must have more negotiating power and they make them less money than someone lasting 2-3 years and than disappearing.
     
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  11. barnaby

    barnaby Forum Resident


    Labels also don't like older female singers because they foolishly think they're not attractive anymore to audiences.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2016
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  12. Sondek

    Sondek Forum Resident

    In fairness, Cher's Believe was, as far as I know, a one off hit by that point in her career. The song was catchy. Madonna's haven't been that catchy. And she didn't come across as aggressively try hard as Madonna has done in recent years. It was more a one off hit that caught people by surprise.
     
  13. barnaby

    barnaby Forum Resident


    Also, it feels like she's not really "reinventing" herself that much anymore, or even "inventing" anything anymore. She used to do pretty groundbreaking stuff. Now she kind of follows the trends indeed.
     
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  14. Sondek

    Sondek Forum Resident

    You've made a good point there.
     
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  15. barnaby

    barnaby Forum Resident


    Still, hats off to Madonna for constantly filling up stadiums and arenas all over the world.
     
  16. Thom

    Thom Forum Resident

    That's brilliant, thanks. It's perfect... she totally answers the question. :) Love 1992-93/Erotica Madonna.
     
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  17. Sondek

    Sondek Forum Resident

    I think the contrast between her album sales nosediving over the last few years and her concerts doing well is that people are going to the concerts as they're getting more of a greatest hits package.
     
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  18. mine82

    mine82 Forum Resident

    It was the MTV awards performance. She was smart enough to realise a young award show would allow her to use a then new approach to an award show performance. Had she done that in concert it would have been less of a deal but that was TV.
     
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  19. barnaby

    barnaby Forum Resident


    Yeah her shows have more or less been following the same pattern since (how ironic) the Reinvention tour. And you can bet any new album of hers is gonna feature the latest hit singers and writers.
    I actually thought of that too when I saw the beginning of that Prince tribute. Madonna on her throne slowly turning to face the audience. You already did it girl! ;)
     
  20. mine82

    mine82 Forum Resident

    This is not Madonna specific though. Album sales and ticket sales for established artists are virtually unrelated any more.
     
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  21. barnaby

    barnaby Forum Resident


    Oh yeah what an era. 1989-1994. When I first heard Living for love, which was slightly reminiscent of that time, I kind of hoped she would go for this on the whole album.
     
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  22. Sondek

    Sondek Forum Resident

    I'd say Adele is fairly established.
     
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  23. Thom

    Thom Forum Resident

    That was the pivotal event in her career. It's funny, by today's Miley/Rihanna-type standards it's not very shocking (at all). But in late 1984, it was really subversive. It sort of defined her identity as much as MJ's moonwalk on the Motown 25 show did in 1983.
     
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  24. barnaby

    barnaby Forum Resident


    Indeed. They always hope to hear the older hits. Although what they usually get is Ray of light and Like a prayer. Not many surprises. She doesn't seem to want to do the old stuff anyway. Which is a shame when you think of her back catalogue.
     
  25. mine82

    mine82 Forum Resident

    You can't really compare Adele to people who have decades long careers. Madonna's career is older than Adele.
    By established i meant they were around for more than 25 years or so. It's been a trend for a while that older artists are the most successful touring acts as a general rule, even when they've stopped releasing new music.
     
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