I thought the samples of the MFiT all sounded great, for 256 AAC. However, I do think there is a distinct benefit for listening to Yes in a lossless format, so I will keep my choices as listed above.
HD Tracks has a higher DR (13-12) than the AF. Very close comparison, I agree with the DR ratings, go with the HD Tracks over any other version of 90125. Btw, HD Tracks was my go to for Big Generator as well.
Besides the distortion on Machine Massiah, the Gastwirt Drama is lacking in detail and has clipping on each track. The only positive thing I can say about it is that the bass is particularly warm. Since I've come to the conclusion that I simply don't care for the Gastwirt/Marino remasters, I've sold all of them except for Drama and Tales (the original CD's that I had were so badly damaged that they wouldn't play all the way through).
I thought I would chime in on the new thread. Here are my preferred versions of most of the Yes stuff. Please note no Gastwirts or remasters of any kind. I have heard the HD tracks for a number of these albums but was unimpressed. I also used to own all the Gastwirts. The later remasters in 16 bit including the Rhinos are also to be avoided IMO, as I have heard a few of them as well. Way too compressed. I've also heard the MFSL of The Yes Album and found it coming up sorely lacking. Fragile was the most difficult, as until 2015 there was no decent digital version available IMO. Overall, Yes was one of the more difficult catalogs for me to assemble. 1969 - Yes (Japan 18P2-2881) 1970 - Time And A Word (Japan 18P2-2882) 1971 - The Yes Album (1987, Atlantic, SD 19131-2, Japan For USA) Diament 1972 - Close To The Edge (Atlantic 32XD-532) 1972 - Fragile [2015, Panegyric, Atlantic] flat transfer, original mix, downsampled to 16 bit from blue ray 1974 - Yesterdays (Atlantic, 7567 81533-2, Germany) for the track America 1977 - Going For The One (Audio Fidelity, AFZ 157) 1978 - Tormato (Japan 18P2-2889) 1980 - Drama (Atlantic, 7567-81473-2, W.Germany) or the original US. I have both. No difference. 1983 - 90125 [ATCO CD 90125, Canada] Wish I had the 32XD of this, but this sounds very good. 1987 - Big Generator (Japan, 32XD-559) These findings are based on listening as the first marker. Then DR, gain, and peak analysis using Foobar. And lastly, waveform analysis using the digital editor Goldwave, to confirm eligibility, as a contender for my preferred version. Digital compression, high waveform amplitude, and low DR values disqualify CD after first listen as a preference.
You cite early Japanese pressings of the first four albums and Tormato, which it should be pointed out use the same mastering source as the original US issues. The exception is Big Generator. The 32XD of this is awful and really inferior to the original US press. I never cared much about this album so I'm not sure how I even know this, but like the others I've owned both.
I am aware that the same source is used for the ones you listed. It's a point that's been argued on here forever, meaning digital is digital, ones and 0s are ones and zeros. I will just leave it as simply as this. The sonics are different to my ears for some masterings that on paper may be identical. Some may think that's complete nonsense, they are entitled to their opinion just as I am. I'm certainly not going to be dogmatic about it. I also have the US version of BG, and to me the 32XD IMO sounds better. Being a person who is heavily into vinyl, I could see why you dislike it. It's a full digital recording and is in fact a bit bright. I will also just throw an observation out there, and it's not meant to be anything more than that. The only time I ever see a response from you to anything I post is to disagree with it. That's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Mine certainly isn't the last word on anything. But I can't help but wonder if maybe you just think I'm full of SHT, and enjoy countering anything that I post.
There could be some different 32XD pressings of BG. The one I had was had earbleed treble and lacked bass. Just awful. I haven't listened to BG in quite a while, but that's how I remember it. I can't really offer much response to your "observation." Frankly, I only recall one other time where I think we had a disagreement and I think it was about your preference for early Japanese CD pressings of the Genesis catalog. There, the matter was different, since I view those as almost uniformly inferior to their UK/US counterparts. With the Yes catalog, at least the Japanese pressings are the same. So if one likes collecting Japanese CDs for some reason then at least he can get masterings which are equal to the early editions pressed in the US and elsewhere and not inferior masterings. This is, of course, just MO.
I don't think there was one of CTTE. There was a unique Japan mastering of Fragile before the Gastwirts but not the early pressings. Instead it was one which came out in like 1992? 1993? Catalog was AMCY... something or other. A friend of mine had it and thought it was really nice. I borrowed it and found it a bit compressed. It had a nice top end bite to it that reminded me of my old US LP, but I think I even decided to open it in Audition because it sounded less dynamic to me. It was definitely compressed and if memory serves it might have even had some clipping. I seem to remember "Roundabout" scored like 9 on DR Meter but I'm just going from memory. Probably a CD that would be of interest to Yes CD collectors. I believe most (all?) of the other Yes CDs in that early 90's Japan series were the same masterings as previously issued worldwide.
I'm wondering if i have a good master of Fragile , disc is aluminum to centre , made in West Germany by Polygram , 19132-2 is it a Barry ?
its not 32xd vs us etc as much as this album really exemplifies the difference between vinyl and compact discs. remember, this is that special time when promo material said all 3! (avail. on lp, cd, + cassette). the lp and cd do sound really different for this title, but not as "this pressing sucks" as much as wow, this one sounds one way, and this one sounds another.
Question: Does Gates of Delirium start abruptly on every mastering? Is it supposed to? I have the 2003 Rhino remaster, and it seems to cut in very abruptly, which I'd never noticed before, and seems jarring to me. I have a vinyl rip of a UK pressing that seems to do the same, but a few of the ones on YouTube seem to fade in instead.
The song does begin abruptly. I haven't listened to it in a while, but I know that song well enough to be able to hear it in my head. There is an abrupt (one way of describing it) beginning to the song. It's a fast song at the beginning.
I went to a F.Y.E. in Virginia Beach today and bought new/sealed copies of the Rhino Tales and Relayer for $5 each. Even though I already have the Studio Albums box, I felt that this was an insane deal which was too good to pass up (especially for Tales). In additon to these, I finally bought the MFSL Fragile from discogs.
I'm curious... why did you buy those extra copies exactly? Is there something different about the solo versions?
No, there's nothing different about the individual copies. For Tales, I also wanted to replace the Gastwirt, which I don't really like. I could've replaced the Gastwirt with the original, but I'm not a huge fan of that one either (and that's why I got rid of it). I'm thinking of selling the Studio Albums box and just getting the individual Rhinos of 90125, Tormato, Drama, and maybe Going for the One since those have the bonus tracks that I come back to the most. With the other bonus tracks, I feel that Yesyears would serve me better even though it doesn't have all of the tracks from the Rhinos.
I received the MFSL's for The Yes Album and Fragile today. I've read countless good and bad things about both masterings on this forum, but I still felt like checking them out. I'd like to share my first impressions, though keep in mind that I'm a full-time headphone listener: The Yes Album, (I've Seen All Good People) - Reading several comments on the forum about this version made me think that the low-end would be far too overpowering. Not quite so, for me at least! The bass is at just the right level IMO; full, rich, and creamy. I couldn't detect any compression, but I'll have to do a more thorough listen sometime soon. Brightness didn't seem to be an issue either. The soundstage was fairly deep and I could easily pick out where the instruments were in the mix. I should also point out that I noticed a few more bass pedals than I remember; most likely thanks to the clarity of the master tape and the deeper low-end. All in all, I have nothing but positive things to say about this MFSL. In fact, this may be the best title that I've heard from them yet! Fragile, (Heart of the Sunrise) - The prime concern many people have with the MFSL of this album is the brightness, and to an extent, this is something that I'll agree with. While I had no problems with the lows, the upper mids and highs were boosted to the point of causing some very slight ear-fatigue by the end of the song. Maybe part of the reason was because I was listening to some stuff from the previous 3 Yes albums beforehand, but judging from people's opinions on the EQ, that might not be the case. The midrange isn't quite as present as I would've liked, but it's servicable for the most part. Still, the EQ isn't as thin and shrill as the Rhino. What really surprised me was the overall transparent quality of the tape; the hiss was only noticeable in the quieter sections and the stereo imaging was quite wide (for headphones at least). The Fragile MFSL is more of a mixed bag compared to TYA, but it's certainly not bad by any means. Then again, I only listened to one song, so maybe the others will sound better. I may have to re-acquire the Gastwirt remaster so I can do a 3 or 4 CD shootout between that one, the original US, Rhino, and MFSL.
Is the following Big Generator CD the one made before the secret remaster? I'm asking because I bought it today: A2-90522, DADC
^ Never mind about the question. I did an EQ graph to compare it with my secret remaster, and it turns out that I bought the original:
Maybe I'm dense, but I'm not sure how to get a comparison out of that graph. There's one wave, showing the secret remaster, right? Shouldn't there be a second wave of a different color?
The wave is actually showing the EQ of the original CD vs the secret remaster. If the graph was flipped upside-down, then you'd get the secret remaster's EQ vs the original. I hope that helps.
