First and Second Wave Punk (70s-early 80s) Memories

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Ophelia, May 25, 2016.

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  1. Ophelia

    Ophelia Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York, New York
    I have a few questions for those who are old enough to remember the first and second waves of Punk either in the U.S., UK or elsewhere. To narrow it down timewise, let's say First Wave is between 1974 and 1977 and Second Wave is 1978-1984.

    1) How do you remember first hearing of Punk; what was the first Punk record you got, first show you went to?
    2) Were you a part of the scene, or more a casual listener?

    3) When did you first hear it referred to as "Punk" rather than simply "Rock N' Roll", and what did you then think of the moniker - was it an insult or a badge of pride?

    4) What were the Punks' relationships to Disco? Many hard rock fans in the late 70s hated Disco; what about Punks, how did they feel about it? This is a subjective question obviously.

    5) What do you remember the First and Second Wave fashion being like? How did they differ?

    6) How did First Wave Punk and Second Wave Punk differ in sound, ideology, aesthetics and style?

    7) Why did the Punks so dislike Prog Rock and Hard Rock acts such as Yes, Pink Floyd, Rush and Led Zeppelin?

    8) What was the view of you, or your friends, at the time on Metal groups like Sabbath or emerging groups like Kiss and Aerosmith?

    9) New Wave - was it considered Punk, an off-shoot of Punk, or a separate genre completely? I'm not talking about now with 20/20 hindsight, I'm talking about how you remember it being viewed in '78, '79, '80, when the first "New Wave" records were coming out.

    10) Punk views on The Rolling Stones? How was Some Girls received in the community in '78?
     
  2. Echo

    Echo Forum Resident

    Many questions to anwer, and I hope you are really open for the answers (I am seeing here too many classic rock fans perceiving punks as kind of Martians) but here is my best try:

    1) How do you remember first hearing of Punk; what was the first Punk record you got, first show you went to? The famous Sex Pistols album was shown for the first time by a classmate of mine at highschool, he had hidden it as a kind of porn mag under his bed (really!). He showed me that very colourfull album by saying the magic words: "The Sex Pistols album". That's all - he didn't even play it! Soon after that I owned however also that album. And here started my love for real music.

    2) Were you a part of the scene, or more a casual listener?
    Started definitely as just a casual listener, was in those days also fan of non-punk musicians and bands. Later I met friends with the same love for real music and were sharing constantly our musical knowledge - I even travelled with some of them to London, NY and SF for visiting record stores, concert gigs and omeeting ther punk/post-punk friends.

    3) When did you first hear it referred to as "Punk" rather than simply "Rock N' Roll", and what did you then think of the moniker - was it an insult or a badge of pride?
    Right from the start - there was much written about punk in mags and newspapers and also at tv. Older people were worried about the nihilistic punk movement, for us youngsters the right reason to listen to it (or collecting those beautifully designed albums and singles)

    4) What were the Punks' relationships to Disco? Many hard rock fans in the late 70s hated Disco; what about Punks, how did they feel about it? This is a subjective question obviously.
    No relationship for me, I perceived disco more as music for the big audience, so not for the 'chosen ones' like me. Funny aspect: I always loved disco, but it took me some years to confess that :).

    5) What do you remember the First and Second Wave fashion being like? How did they differ?
    Never seen those two waves as different, in hindsight I wil say now the second wave was far more political - at least, in Holland where the squatter movement (which came out of the punk movement) was big, was however not really my cup of tea. Punk was for me (!) more musically and artistically important than meant for political intentions. Musically seen, punk evolved in post-punk which was/is artically seen even higher esteemed by me

    6) How did First Wave Punk and Second Wave Punk differ in sound, ideology, aesthetics and style? I can only give my Dutch (or maybe better: my personal) point of view: first wave existed more out of art school students, second wave was more for political radicals. I think you can perceive the first and second wave also differently, respectively as punk rock and post-punk (and new wave)

    7) Why did the Punks so dislike Prog Rock and Hard Rock acts such as Yes, Pink Floyd, Rush and Led Zeppelin? I didn't even think about that, prog was for the brain dead or for those f*cking hippies. No time needed to listen at that. At an underground party in Amsterdam I met once a punkrocker who loved Pink Floyd - his nickname , given by his friends, was of course ... 'Punk Floyd'. :)

    8) What was the view of you, or your friends, at the time on Metal groups like Sabbath or emerging groups like Kiss and Aerosmith? Out of our sight, heard some rumours they they were living somewhere at the countryside. Started just five years ago for the first time to listen to Black Sabbath and to love their albums :)

    9) New Wave - was it considered Punk, an off-shoot of Punk, or a separate genre completely? I'm not talking about now with 20/20 hindsight, I'm talking about how you remember it being viewed in '78, '79, '80, when the first "New Wave" records were coming out. Where did punk end and where did start new wave? Punk rock was a flame which coul only burn for two or three years,many punk bands evolved into new wave bands, but that didn't mean the music was less important. I have always loved punk and post-punk/new wave, then and now.

    10) Punk views on The Rolling Stones? How was Some Girls received in the community in '78? Rolling Stones were old men using 'those boring R&B licks, killing all creativity in music, some songs of the RS's were however seen by me as a kind of guilty pleasure. I don't think I was even interested in their albums, so 'Some Girls' was an album I purchased, by coincidence, very recently. I still like their disco-inspired songs much better than those oldfashioned R&B licks ( still reason enough for me to vomit; a bunch of millionaires trying to play poor mens' blues... yaugh!! :hurl:


    As you see punk is a bit elite, maybe also because of the fact we punks were very young. I started at an age of 14 or 15. . During my life my musical perception of Life did change however. I have even now a very eclectic taste, good for cabinets with more than 7000 cds and two speakers of almost 2 meters high - real punk must be heard by the best audio :biglaugh:
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2016
  3. Telegramsam

    Telegramsam Forum Resident

    Since I have some time in my hands...

    1) How do you remember first hearing of Punk; what was the first Punk record you got, first show you went to?

    Reading UK music press, I was the right age and had the right pre-tastes (Bowie, Roxy, heavier and off center bands..) I was like a born again christian about punk.

    2) Were you a part of the scene, or more a casual listener?

    Like a one man army, in Rio de Janeiro there was just a handful of people who was even aware of it

    3) When did you first hear it referred to as "Punk" rather than simply "Rock N' Roll", and what did you then think of the moniker - was it an insult or a badge of pride?

    Like I ´´saw the light´´. An honour obviously, like feeling you were better than everybody else hahaha

    4) What were the Punks' relationships to Disco? Many hard rock fans in the late 70s hated Disco; what about Punks, how did they feel about it? This is a subjective question obviously.

    Officially hated it, but secretly liked some of it. Still do.

    5) What do you remember the First and Second Wave fashion being like? How did they differ?

    First wave was more natural, like having no money, and being creative within the boundaries of punk (we were teenagers...) Second wave more like a fashion statement, more orchestrated, by late 78 it was all over for me, and the music moved on too.

    6) How did First Wave Punk and Second Wave Punk differ in sound, ideology, aesthetics and style?

    See above

    7) Why did the Punks so dislike Prog Rock and Hard Rock acts such as Yes, Pink Floyd, Rush and Led Zeppelin?

    I hated prog rock before punk, I really thgought it was a waste of time. As I got older I started liking it, now I love some of it.

    8) What was the view of you, or your friends, at the time on Metal groups like Sabbath or emerging groups like Kiss and Aerosmith?

    Kind of tolerated it.

    9) New Wave - was it considered Punk, an off-shoot of Punk, or a separate genre completely? I'm not talking about now with 20/20 hindsight, I'm talking about how you remember it being viewed in '78, '79, '80, when the first "New Wave" records were coming out.

    Like a progression, it was a time of invention, everything sounded and looked so new, so alive, so different...

    10) Punk views on The Rolling Stones? How was Some Girls received in the community in '78?

    I remember liking some of it at the time, althoug they were regarded as the enemy, the Stones were like an older, drunk at the party, rich and decadent uncle that you secretly admires.
     
  4. badsneakers

    badsneakers Well-Known Member

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This is my take on Punk as a 51 year old (roughly 5 years too young to fully enjoy the 2nd wave UK scene.)

    How do you remember first hearing of Punk; what was the first Punk record you got, first show you went to?
    On the radio, listening to the John Peel show in bed under the covers. Essential listening for teenagers in the UK. First single was Complete Control by The Clash, around 1978. First big gig was also The Clash, in 1980 on the 16 Tons Tour. Mind fully blown.

    Were you a part of the scene, or more a casual listener?
    Not really part of the scene - too young, so therefore too late. I was an avid listener.

    What were the Punks' relationships to Disco?
    Two very different underground camps. Punk forged a strong affiliation to Rastas and the Roots Reggae scene, however. Check Bob Marley's Punky Reggae Party.

    What do you remember the First and Second Wave fashion being like? How did they differ?
    Second wave was basically DIY, and therefore great if you had limited funds. You could look like Johnny Rotten for £15.

    Why did the Punks so dislike Prog Rock and Hard Rock acts such as Yes, Pink Floyd, Rush and Led Zeppelin?
    Many punks had all those albums stashed away in their closets. Rotten was a huge fan of CAN and Krautrock.

    New Wave - was it considered Punk, an off-shoot of Punk, or a separate genre completely? I'm not talking about now with 20/20 hindsight, I'm talking about how you remember it being viewed in '78, '79, '80, when the first "New Wave" records were coming out.
    To my mind it was a natural progression of Punk. Fresh, new music which teenagers could relate to. Great bands around this time too, and my favourites at that time (1978-80) were probably The Cure, Elvis Costello, Ian Dury, The Only Ones and Devo.

    Punk views on The Rolling Stones? How was Some Girls received in the community in '78?
    Our local 'Punk' T Shirt & badge shop played it regularly, I seem to remember. It kind of fitted in with the times in many ways, as it had an edge to it with some elements of the punk sound ie. Lies.
     
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  5. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    1) How do you remember first hearing of Punk; what was the first Punk record you got, first show you went to?
    Heard it on the radio and on Top Of The Pops, first buys were Machine Gun Etiquette, London Calling, Setting Sons, some Costello and Blondie singles. I decided that 'Punk' was my music in late 78.

    2) Were you a part of the scene, or more a casual listener? Avid fan

    3) When did you first hear it referred to as "Punk" rather than simply "Rock N' Roll", and what did you then think of the moniker - was it an insult or a badge of pride? It was pretty much called Punk straight from the get go in the UK in 1976/77

    4) What were the Punks' relationships to Disco? Many hard rock fans in the late 70s hated Disco; what about Punks, how did they feel about it? This is a subjective question obviously. I really liked the disco records I heard - and some were not very different from the first Post Punk electronic bands. If Rocks fans hated it that would be a reason enough to like it as well.

    5) What do you remember the First and Second Wave fashion being like? How did they differ? First was either the Vivienne Westwood look or more often just a casual look with the right things (no flares). The second wave was much more about the spiky hair, mohawks, the leather jackets with Discharge and Crass on the back.

    6) How did First Wave Punk and Second Wave Punk differ in sound, ideology, aesthetics and style? It would need a book to explain that. The anarcho punk scene was far more political obviously, and the street punk scene far more working class and angry. The later bands get slagged off by many original punk bands but they were in a way the true spirit of punk, working class kids singing about what made they angry, rather than some of the originals who may have been just London fashion victims along for the ride.

    7) Why did the Punks so dislike Prog Rock and Hard Rock acts such as Yes, Pink Floyd, Rush and Led Zeppelin? Because it was crap, boring and self indulgent and set up a star/audience thing. It still is crap and boring no matter what anybody says.

    8) What was the view of you, or your friends, at the time on Metal groups like Sabbath or emerging groups like Kiss and Aerosmith? Kiss and Aerosmith were very minor in the UK, I never heard these bands at the time. Sabbath were a joke by then.

    9) New Wave - was it considered Punk, an off-shoot of Punk, or a separate genre completely? I'm not talking about now with 20/20 hindsight, I'm talking about how you remember it being viewed in '78, '79, '80, when the first "New Wave" records were coming out. Very complex, some New Wave came out of Punk quite smoothly, other was just chancers who though they would have a shot at last if they wore a skinny tie and got their hair cut.

    10) Punk views on The Rolling Stones? How was Some Girls received in the community in '78? No Elvis, Beatles or The Rolling Stones...in 1977. I mean they were boring dinosaurs to punks, no-one cared, although the sixties records were liked, when they were still good.
     
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  6. Linto

    Linto Mayor of Simpleton

    1) How do you remember first hearing of Punk; what was the first Punk record you got, first show you went to? - my sister got Nevermind The...when it came out, I was 10 she was 14, not allowed to play it in the house.

    2) Were you a part of the scene, or more a casual listener? I was 10

    3) When did you first hear it referred to as "Punk" rather than simply "Rock N' Roll", and what did you then think of the moniker - was it an insult or a badge of pride? about 1976 I guess, Rock N Roll was for Showaddwaddy

    4) What were the Punks' relationships to Disco? Many hard rock fans in the late 70s hated Disco; what about Punks, how did they feel about it? This is a subjective question obviously. - there was no connection at all in UK

    5) What do you remember the First and Second Wave fashion being like? How did they differ? - If there was a second wave it passed me by? Punk was 75 to 78 ish, What bands made up this second wave??

    6) How did First Wave Punk and Second Wave Punk differ in sound, ideology, aesthetics and style? ditto

    7) Why did the Punks so dislike Prog Rock and Hard Rock acts such as Yes, Pink Floyd, Rush and Led Zeppelin? - ostentatious guitar solos, flares, girls hair, stupidly long songs, etc etc

    8) What was the view of you, or your friends, at the time on Metal groups like Sabbath or emerging groups like Kiss and Aerosmith? - a very different crowd indeed. But none of those were big in the UK around the time of punk, metal was really after.

    9) New Wave - was it considered Punk, an off-shoot of Punk, or a separate genre completely? I'm not talking about now with 20/20 hindsight, I'm talking about how you remember it being viewed in '78, '79, '80, when the first "New Wave" records were coming out. Acceptable , TOTP friendly punk. it wasn't a genre more of a collection of genres.

    10) Punk views on The Rolling Stones? How was Some Girls received in the community in '78?- slaughtered, especially Miss You
     
  7. Tanx

    Tanx Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    I'd qualify as second wave in the U.S. for the most part ('78-'84).

    1) How do you remember first hearing of Punk; what was the first Punk record you got, first show you went to?

    The first I heard of punk was because of the Beatles (see? Every Steve Hoffman thread has to come around to the Beatles eventually). They were on the cover of Hit Parader in '76. That issue also happened to be jam-packed with stories of the Sex Pistols, Ramones, Clash, Patti Smith, and Television. I was 11 and was fascinated, even though I hadn't heard a note of the music. I was too young to go to shows (if any were even happening near me), but I continued to buy any Creem, Circus, or Hit Parader magazines that had these cool new people in them.

    First punk record was "Never Mind the Bollocks" in '79. Still the best, in my opinion. (I'd bought Television's "Adventure" the year before, so if you want to be less technical about the punk label, there's that.)

    I started going to local punk shows in Boston in 1981. But I guess my first official punk show was the Angelic Upstarts in 1982. Someone opened up my forehead with a spiked bracelet; still have a small scar.


    2) Were you a part of the scene, or more a casual listener?

    In the second wave, definitely part of the scene, first in Boston and then in D.C. I probably averaged two or three shows a week in those days. I also wrote for fanzines, which helped me get familiar with more bands.

    3) When did you first hear it referred to as "Punk" rather than simply "Rock N' Roll", and what did you then think of the moniker - was it an insult or a badge of pride?

    That 1976 issue of Hit Parader. I didn't think much of the label one way or the other.

    4) What were the Punks' relationships to Disco? Many hard rock fans in the late 70s hated Disco; what about Punks, how did they feel about it? This is a subjective question obviously.

    Disco was over by '81. I remember the rivalry being between arena rock and punk.

    5) What do you remember the First and Second Wave fashion being like? How did they differ?

    Well, in the U.S., the second wave copied the fashion of the first wave in the U.K. I was pretty traditional (lots of black, lots of zippers, band T-shirts, spiked hair, etc.). But I do remember it being quite a free-for-all, which was nice. No real judgement about fashion.

    6) How did First Wave Punk and Second Wave Punk differ in sound, ideology, aesthetics and style?

    In Boston, at least, there were a few different "waves" going on in the early '80s. 1979-81 was sort of a mirror of first wave U.K. punk; that is also when a lot of those British bands toured the U.S. Then the hardcore scene started to dominate for the under-18s, myself included. Fortunately, in Boston at least, that meant that a triple bill might be two hardcore bands but also PiL or the Replacements or the Misfits. I moved to D.C. in '83. The scene there obviously revolved around Dischord Records and a separate post-punk scene that included bands like 9353 and No Trend (my preference).

    7) Why did the Punks so dislike Prog Rock and Hard Rock acts such as Yes, Pink Floyd, Rush and Led Zeppelin?

    Boring, bloated stage shows, out of touch with fans. If you were in high school, that's what the "normal" kids listened to, and that was enough reason to spurn it (some things never change). I like some of that music now; others in that group have never been a favorite.

    8) What was the view of you, or your friends, at the time on Metal groups like Sabbath or emerging groups like Kiss and Aerosmith?

    Those three bands were favorites, in Boston at least, during the second wave. In fact, Aerosmith was sort of falling apart at the time, so Joe Perry used to play the local clubs with other local bands. Metal became a bigger part of the Boston scene around the time I left.

    9) New Wave - was it considered Punk, an off-shoot of Punk, or a separate genre completely? I'm not talking about now with 20/20 hindsight, I'm talking about how you remember it being viewed in '78, '79, '80, when the first "New Wave" records were coming out.

    In my memory, in the U.S., it was all the same. You had certain clubs and certain stores that sold both genres of music, plus everything Bowie ever released. You saw the same people at anything approaching an "alternative" show, although the word didn't exist yet. There was no shame in buying Police or Culture Club tickets in 1982. I much preferred those days to the nitpicking that followed and that continues today (and it might even be worse).

    10) Punk views on The Rolling Stones? How was Some Girls received in the community in '78?

    I wasn't a punk in '78, beyond my little world of magazines, so can't comment on this.
     
  8. ralphb

    ralphb "First they came for..."

    Location:
    Brooklyn, New York
    .

    1) How do you remember first hearing of Punk; what was the first Punk record you got, first show you went to?
    Summer 1974, I was 20. Had been reading Patti Smith in CREEM, her first 45 "Hey Joe" had just been released. Went to see her 3 piece band with Television opening at Max's that September. Don't know if seeing the Dolls a number of times before that counts.
    2) Were you a part of the scene, or more a casual listener?
    Part of the scene, went to CBGB and Max's as often as I could.
    3) When did you first hear it referred to as "Punk" rather than simply "Rock N' Roll", and what did you then think of the moniker - was it an insult or a badge of pride?
    When PUNK mag published it's first issue, 1975.
    The word had been coined years before, it was an easy way to describe what was happening, but the more rigid definition of the term didn't fit most of the bands playing the clubs. The range of music available was astounding, and trying to name it by using one word was a fools errand, but I get that a definer was needed for writers who didn't know a lot of words.

    4) What were the Punks' relationships to Disco? Many hard rock fans in the late 70s hated Disco; what about Punks, how did they feel about it? This is a subjective question obviously.
    Not sure. I wasn't into it (yet) but there was so much going on within the scene that there was no time to waste on hating something. Blondie cut "The disco song" with their first batch of demos.

    5) What do you remember the First and Second Wave fashion being like? How did they differ?
    When I first started going to CBGB there was such a mix of people that there was no definable style. Bikers, models, bridge and tunnel kids, gays, band members, the Warhol crowd, it was a big mash up and it was wonderful for a very short period of time.
    I really didn't detect a big change in fashion. Some band/audience members tried to dress it up a bit (Clem Burke of Blondie was always well turned out) but money didn't exactly fall from the trees, so cheap leather jackets, jeans etc. ruled for quite a while. Always lots of black. Me, it seems the way I dressed reminded people of undercover narcs. If they only knew.:)


    6) How did First Wave Punk and Second Wave Punk differ in sound, ideology, aesthetics and style?
    The audience changed around 1977/78. It wasn't such an amusing blend of disparate styles and attitudes anymore. The more folks who discovered the scene, the more it changed. I think ideology is something that applied more to the British movement than the United States. It was never a political thing here, more a musical/social phenomenon. A group of misfit children had found a home , got to build their own world, and live there for a while. It was a bit of a Utopia (scuzzy as it was) but politics never really entered into it.

    7) Why did the Punks so dislike Prog Rock and Hard Rock acts such as Yes, Pink Floyd, Rush and Led Zeppelin?
    I never considered myself a "punk", but I never hated those bands. Except for Rush who were never on my radar. Grew up with and saw Zeppelin and Floyd, but there was so much new stuff coming that there wasn't time for the old guard. Who really weren't that old. Everything was so shiny and new it was overwhelming.

    8) What was the view of you, or your friends, at the time on Metal groups like Sabbath or emerging groups like Kiss and Aerosmith?
    Grew up listening to Sabbath, thought Kiss was a joke, was pretty meh about Aerosmith.

    9) New Wave - was it considered Punk, an off-shoot of Punk, or a separate genre completely? I'm not talking about now with 20/20 hindsight, I'm talking about how you remember it being viewed in '78, '79, '80, when the first "New Wave" records were coming out.
    More like something that "punk" morphed into. But New Wave really came out of power pop which had been around for quite a while by 1980.

    10) Punk views on The Rolling Stones? How was Some Girls received in the community in '78?
    Everybody was Rolling Stones fan.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2016
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  9. Ophelia

    Ophelia Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York, New York
    Thanks for all the replies so far. To be honest, I've always been a die hard hard rocker and so was dismissive/antagonistic of Punk Rock, didn't really understand it. My encounters with Punk fans on other boards, who excuded an air of superiority about them, was a huge turn off and so I didn't get into the genre until recently. I bought Nevermind The..., The Clash's first record, Blondie's first few albums, L.A.M.F, and a bunch of others and am really getting into the music and mindset as I've always been a bit of a social misfit myself. Never really fit in and the music captures that feeling perfectly. I wish I was alive to have seen the birth of the scene, it really sounds like it was an awesome, motley group of people who had no one else, at least at first. Just a simple time when music still had the power to join people. Now today it's Facebook that does that. Thanks again for all the replies thus far.
     
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  10. ralphb

    ralphb "First they came for..."

    Location:
    Brooklyn, New York
    You should read this, some of the best writing about the scene out there:
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Tanx

    Tanx Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    As I tried to convey in my post, I found the early scene to be very, very accepting (it had to be--there weren't that many members!). I currently avoid most punk rock talk like the plague, including among friends. It's always a competition about who saw who first and whether so-and-so was really punk.

    Hopefully you'll continue to listen to the music and ignore the baggage.
     
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  12. Erik Tracy

    Erik Tracy Meet me at the Green Dragon for an ale

    Location:
    San Diego, CA, USA
    Is this for a doctorate thesis?:D

    And do I get paid for participation?:laugh:
     
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  13. Beamish13

    Beamish13 Forum Resident

    At the time of punk's emergence, I really felt that disco was far more inclusive and seemed to just be a more fun "scene". As David Byrne once said, "disco was black and disco was gay. When people said things like 'disco sucks', they basically said that black people and gay people suck."

    I definitely gravitated towards post-punk for a number of reasons. It was far less male-centric, the lyrics seemed smarter and it was music I could actually move to.
     
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  14. ralphb

    ralphb "First they came for..."

    Location:
    Brooklyn, New York
    He was right. But at the very beginning, say from 1974 through 1975, the CBGB scene was very inclusive. Popularity changed that.
     
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  15. kevimetal

    kevimetal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Exeter, UK
    I haven't read this Richard Hell bio, but I wanted to add a book recommendation. It is written by Legs McNeil who started the "Punk" magazine (thus coining the phrase), it's called "Please Kill Me: The Oral History of Punk Rock". It's the best music book I've ever read (and I've read a lot) and it's specifically about the dawn of the American punk scene. It's told by piecing interviews together, ie- you might have 6 or 8 different people talking about a specific important event (say, a certain gig) - in a conversational type way and after reading everyone's input you get a fairly beautiful scene of what it might have been like to be there on that evening. It's AMAZING. I want to warn you however that McNeil holds a controversial opinion that Punk was a style of American music (only) that lasted between 1969 and 1976. Anything outside of these parameters he pretty much dismisses as "not Punk". I don't agree, but either way I can't recommend the book enough.

    Good thread, thanks for starting, enjoying reading everyone's comments. I was born in 1971 so I didn't start listening to this stuff until the mid-80's so I can't claim to have "been there".
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2016
  16. Sternodox

    Sternodox SubGenius Pope of Arkansas

    I saw a picture of this girl in Time Magazine.
    [​IMG]
    That was the first time I ever encountered the term 'punk rock.' I guess it was late '76 or early '77. Heard the Pistols not long after. First 'punk show' I attended was The Skunks at Raul's in Austin, TX. Good memories.
     
  17. Pennywise

    Pennywise Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Sewers
    This. Another good example is Pat Smear of the Germs. He was a huge fan of Yes and early Genesis. Still is.
     
  18. ralphb

    ralphb "First they came for..."

    Location:
    Brooklyn, New York
    I never cared for Eddie McNeil, and "Please Kill Me..." is a fun read, but if you want to read a book about the birth of the 70's punk scene and how it grew from earlier bands, you should read:
    [​IMG]
    The chapters on the Cleveland music scene are invaluable.
     
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  19. kevimetal

    kevimetal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Exeter, UK
    Will do. I read your comments upthread, you were THERE man, so cool! Did you know McNeil? When you read Please Kill Me did you find yourself saying "I was at that gig"? I would love to hear more of your stories if you feel like writing them up.
     
  20. ralphb

    ralphb "First they came for..."

    Location:
    Brooklyn, New York
    I knew him because I saw him around, but never spoke to him, he always seemed like a jerk. He was always passed out on the floor of CBGB, or eating French fries off the floor of CBGB.:)
    Haven't read the book since it was published, but folks like McNeil and CBGB photog/door person Roberta Bayley pretty much lived at the club and saw a hell of a lot more gigs than someone like me who was schlepping over from Brooklyn, but I made it there as often as I could. Usually once or twice a week if I had the money and time.
    Specific gigs? Jeez................
     
  21. jimod99

    jimod99 Daddy or chips?

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON
    1) How do you remember first hearing of Punk; what was the first Punk record you got, first show you went to?

    Buying Anarchy In The UK, The Damned at Glasgow Apollo 1977, saw The Stranglers the next night

    2) Were you a part of the scene, or more a casual listener?

    Part of the scene

    3) When did you first hear it referred to as "Punk" rather than simply "Rock N' Roll", and what did you then think of the moniker - was it an insult or a badge of pride?

    Badge of Pride

    4) What were the Punks' relationships to Disco? Many hard rock fans in the late 70s hated Disco; what about Punks, how did they feel about it? This is a subjective question obviously.

    In Glasgow they were pretty close, the Punks tended to drink in the city's gay bars as they were "safe" ie. no chance of getting beat up, and as both were "outsider scenes" in a tough UK city in the 70's they actually had a mutual admiration, and affinity with each other.

    5) What do you remember the First and Second Wave fashion being like? How did they differ?

    Not much

    6) How did First Wave Punk and Second Wave Punk differ in sound, ideology, aesthetics and style?

    In Glasgow the Oi scene was regarded as more an English thing, by that point band like Simple Minds and the Postcard groups were taking off and that was more popular

    7) Why did the Punks so dislike Prog Rock and Hard Rock acts such as Yes, Pink Floyd, Rush and Led Zeppelin?

    Boring dad music, and music for the twats in your class at school.

    8) What was the view of you, or your friends, at the time on Metal groups like Sabbath or emerging groups like Kiss and Aerosmith?

    Ignored them, Kiss and Aerosmith were never that popular in the UK anyway

    9) New Wave - was it considered Punk, an off-shoot of Punk, or a separate genre completely? I'm not talking about now with 20/20 hindsight, I'm talking about how you remember it being viewed in '78, '79, '80, when the first "New Wave" records were coming out.

    Just a follow on as it became more commercial

    10) Punk views on The Rolling Stones? How was Some Girls received in the community in '78?

    Completely ignored.
     
    Jim B. and ralphb like this.
  22. Gordon Crisp

    Gordon Crisp Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    I'm not saying it's specifically inspired but I just had a flash: The acoustic intro of "No God" reminds me a bit of "Roundabout".
     
  23. Raunchnroll

    Raunchnroll Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    I have a few questions for those who are old enough to remember the first and second waves of Punk either in the U.S., UK or elsewhere. To narrow it down timewise, let's say First Wave is between 1974 and 1977 and Second Wave is 1978-1984.

    1) How do you remember first hearing of Punk; what was the first Punk record you got, first show you went to?

    - I was not living in NY or LA. Here, up in the NW, the first notion of what would be punk as I recall was in the record stores around 1976; the little posters or advertisements and occasional in-store play of records by employees. By late 1977 is was bit more prevalent; a few friends had some key albums I'd hear, the FM station DJs would talk about punk or the Ramones or Patti Smith but the music was not being played. It was still a blip in the music scene here. That first wave period was insignificant in the larger pantheon of rock outside places like NY and LA. There were all sorts of sub-scenes going on at the time from art-rock to early electronic, reggae, disco, etc. In other words, it was one of several small mutations cropping up.

    2) Were you a part of the scene, or more a casual listener?

    - I didn't really like much of it at first but grew to like some of it by the end of 1978 and eventually got into it. By 1979 I was going regularly to local shows and had a small collection of punk LPs. I never gave up on my love of other genres though. I was and still am a big fan of progressive, hard rock, blues, folk, psych, country rock, soul, and so on.

    3) When did you first hear it referred to as "Punk" rather than simply "Rock N' Roll", and what did you then think of the moniker - was it an insult or a badge of pride?

    - I remember hearing the term punk or 'punks' applied to 60's garage rock. Also, there was a compilation album I had called 'Nuggets' with liner notes by Lenny Kaye, and I believe he was already using that term back in the early 70's.

    4) What were the Punks' relationships to Disco? Many hard rock fans in the late 70s hated Disco; what about Punks, how did they feel about it? This is a subjective question obviously.

    - Disco was largely disliked by guys into rock and punk generally. There was a perception it was going to kill off live bands (missing the fact that the best disco was largely by live bands!) Problem is, many of our girlfriends (and in my case gay guy-friends) liked it -- so I was sort of dragged along. And I grew to love it.

    5) What do you remember the First and Second Wave fashion being like? How did they differ?

    - Most of the second wave was what I liked, tighter and more focused, less trashy/gutter/arty, often with a sense of humor and fun.

    6) How did First Wave Punk and Second Wave Punk differ in sound, ideology, aesthetics and style?

    - I'll leave that to the more academic & first hand folks here. I just didn't know enough about first wave then to offer much.

    7) Why did the Punks so dislike Prog Rock and Hard Rock acts such as Yes, Pink Floyd, Rush and Led Zeppelin?

    - I don't remember that at all. Except by smug pretentious 'critics' and the public statements by Lyndon etc. Most punks I knew - and I mean the ones who really got into punk - didn't disdain other genres although obviously everyone has genres they're personally not into. One friend at the time liked to piss off his punk friends by playing Jethro Tull. He was a Tull fan even though he was a die hard punk fan.

    8) What was the view of you, or your friends, at the time on Metal groups like Sabbath or emerging groups like Kiss and Aerosmith?

    - Those were all predominant + hugely popular hard rock groups of the 70's - long before there was punk. They were just the norm. Nobody outside maybe critics etc. commonly called this stuff metal. 'Metal' wasn't a term heard really at all until the very end of the '70's and the rising popularity of Judas Priest, Scorpions, etc.

    9) New Wave - was it considered Punk, an off-shoot of Punk, or a separate genre completely? I'm not talking about now with 20/20 hindsight, I'm talking about how you remember it being viewed in '78, '79, '80, when the first "New Wave" records were coming out.

    - The term started to get attached to punk by the end of the 70's. Like most music terms -- for example 'hard rock' -- knowing where one ends and the other begins was not always clear. At some point it was obvious but everyone had their opinions where this line was - then and now.

    10) Punk views on The Rolling Stones? How was Some Girls received in the community in '78?

    - Some Girls was a hugely popular album. Played heavily on radio formats, it married disco (also very popular at the time) to the Stones unique sound. I bought the album. I had friends that had it. Not sure about the folks who were more exclusively punk and may have discarded much of their earlier 'likes.'

    - Most of the early punk base was the tail end of the boomers and the initial Gen X'rs. In 1978 the youngest boomers were in their teens and the Gen X'rs were largely pre-teen. Prime time for both.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2016
    ralphb likes this.
  24. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Senior Member

    Location:
    Bretagne
    A UK perspective:

    1) How do you remember first hearing of Punk; what was the first Punk record you got, first show you went to?
    The first time I heard the word was in old Westerns or gangster movies : "You little punk!". Some skinny young thug getting a slap from a tough guy.
    The first time that I saw the word associated with music was in a pop magazine (The Story Of Pop) in 1973. The article was titled "Punk Rock: The story of garage bands". That's a pretty early reference - even before the New York Dolls broke, let alone Dr. Feelgood! The (US) bands mentioned were Sam The Sham & The Pharaohs, 13th Floor Elevators, The Seeds, TheElectric Prunes, The Vagrants, The Barbarians, The Remains, The Sonics, and loads of others... The 1973 article went on to list British Punk bands: The Wheels, Belfast Gypsies, Rockin' Vickers and the good old Troggs.
    Then in 1976, there were these tiny mentions in Melody Maker and NME of a new punk movement down in London. I first thought that Midge Ure's 50s nostalgia band Slick was what they mean't but it turned out to be the very exotic and outragiously sounding Sex Pistols. A fuzzy black and white photo of the band in a fight at The Nashville was all we had to go on.
    I saw Eddie & The Hot Rods on Top Of The Pops doing a speedy "Get Out Of Denver" and ran out to buy their superb Live At The Marquee E.P. It wasn't really punk but I was hooked. Then I picked up a copy of "Anarchy In The UK" (on EMI) from my local Boots store and my life changed.
    First show? I think it was the Buzzcocks at a pub near Chorlton, South Manchester. Either that or Eddie & The Hot Rods at Manchester Free Trade Hall.

    2) Were you a part of the scene, or more a casual listener?
    Very much part of the Manchester scene. I went to The Squat, The Electric Circus, Rafters, The Mayfair, Mecca Ballroom, Manchester Poly, The Russel Club/Factory,... I saw Buzzcocks and Warsaw/Joy Division loads of times plus The Clash (met them), Chelsea, 999, The Fall, Slaughter & The Dogs, Siouxsie, Radio Stars, Only Ones, Magazine, Wire, ...

    3) When did you first hear it referred to as "Punk" rather than simply "Rock N' Roll", and what did you then think of the moniker - was it an insult or a badge of pride?
    See answer 1.
    "Punk" was vital, thrilling, modern, raw, REAL.

    4) What were the Punks' relationships to Disco? Many hard rock fans in the late 70s hated Disco; what about Punks, how did they feel about it? This is a subjective question obviously.
    I remember Manchester punks liking Disco, funk, reggae, soul and even a little blues. However Heavy Metal, Prog, folk, West Coast, Couuntry Rock,... were hated.

    5) What do you remember the First and Second Wave fashion being like? How did they differ?
    The first wave was 1976 to 1977/78. Before that, The NY Dolls, Stooges, MC5 weren't referred to as punk. It was hard rock. Before that, Dr Feelgood were a succesful "Pub-Rock" band. The Pistols were the first Punk band without any doubt. The Ramones came along afterwards (or practically in parallel).
    There was no second wave because in broadened and became New Wave and Power Pop from 1978 onwards.

    6) How did First Wave Punk and Second Wave Punk differ in sound, ideology, aesthetics and style?
    New Wave and Power Pop got a little more melodic and adventurous. They were less aggressive, more colourful, safer. Not as good.

    7) Why did the Punks so dislike Prog Rock and Hard Rock acts such as Yes, Pink Floyd, Rush and Led Zeppelin?
    Their music had been going on for ages and was associated with virtuosity and unbound riches. All those bands were past their best by 1975 and had become bloated and boring. Kids didn't want old heroes anymore, they wanted exciting, adrenaline filled music from people like themselves who were playing down the road at an affordable price. We had missed the excitement of the early 60s but now it was our turn.

    8) What was the view of you, or your friends, at the time on Metal groups like Sabbath or emerging groups like Kiss and Aerosmith?
    Kiss had zero credibility in the UK and I think that they were the most musically worthless successful band ever. That was the consensus at the time also. All Metal was judged as cheesy old junk. Guitar solos were out. I saw Aerosmith at the 1977 Reading Festival and they seemed dull. Ultravox (with John Foxx) seemed far more fresh and exciting. Headlining Thin Lizzy were old school but they were terrific!

    9) New Wave - was it considered Punk, an off-shoot of Punk, or a separate genre completely? I'm not talking about now with 20/20 hindsight, I'm talking about how you remember it being viewed in '78, '79, '80, when the first "New Wave" records were coming out.
    An evolution of the initial punk premise. New Wave was more accessible, musical, multi-instrumental, more "pop" if you like. The door opened for U2, Simple Minds, Police, Gary Newman, Ultravox, Stranglers,... Punk purists hated them all. I liked some things by those artists initially but soon grew to dislike them all myself. As it got even worse in the 80s with New Romantics and synths, I abandonned the scene and explored past American music of the 20th century in all its forms.

    10) Punk views on The Rolling Stones? How was Some Girls received in the community in '78?
    The Stones were targeted as being the ultimate tax exile snobs but they did retain a little credibilty, largely thanks to Keith's image and Woody's spikey look. Their music wasn't at all pretentious like the metal or prog bands, and on Black & Blue they had done some funk and reggae, so they were still cool. When it appeared, Some Girls was seen as quite a pathetic attempt by them to do a few "punky" songs which just sounded dull, weedy. However everybody loved "Miss You".
     
    ralphb likes this.
  25. ralphb

    ralphb "First they came for..."

    Location:
    Brooklyn, New York
    I have to take issue with #10. That album sounded anything but weedy, and if they were trying to do punk, then it had the effect of re-energizing them. The Stones hadn't sounded that feral, that close to the ground and yowling, for quite some time. Those guitars twisted like barb wire and the raw sound of the album sounded like summer in the city. It was dirty, mean and horny music. How can you hear a song like "Shattered" and think it sounded pathetic? Yeah, I know, a bunch of rich guys slumming it in a way, but I think they really felt those songs, felt the decadence of New York, the 24 hour alive-ness of the place and just nailed it. People here loved that album.
     
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