Question About Careless LP Packaging From eBay Seller

Discussion in 'Marketplace Discussions' started by Leviethan, May 24, 2016.

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  1. Leviethan

    Leviethan Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    So I ordered a double album on eBay. The seller packaged it in a proper mailer with plenty of bubble wrap. The issue is, he packed the records outside of the sleeve, partially wrapped in bubble wrap DIRECTLY underneath the taped box flaps. When I used an exacto knife to remove the tape, the knife scratched across most of side two, rendering it unplayable. The LPs are housed in those thin plastic bag type inners, so they had no protection from this. I would imagine paper sleeves may have fared better. I opened a return case against the guy and he wants to place the blame squarely on me. Of course I damaged the record when I opened it, but this was clearly due to his careless packaging. He tried to lecture me about being careful when I open albums! It's not like I gouged the knife into the package like a maniac.

    It doesn't seem like he's going to give me a refund, and I'm afraid that eBay will side with him since I technically damaged the record myself. My question is, should I close the case and ruin his 100% positive feedback rating with a negative? I've been buying and selling records on eBay since 1999, and I've left exactly one negative feedback rating for a guy who shipped me an LP in a flimsy bubble mailer, resulting in the album being split in half by the USPS. Or should I stick it out and hope eBay sides with me?
     
  2. curbach

    curbach Some guy on the internet

    Location:
    The ATX
    I thought it was considered good practice to ship lps outside the sleeve to prevent seam splits. Was there something unusual about the way the seller did this? I can't quite tell from your post.

    At any rate, I suspect careless use of a box knife is going to be a difficult charge for you to overcome. Good luck!
     
  3. sirmikael

    sirmikael Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    I've been on eBay since 1999 as well, and my guess is that eBay will likely side with the seller, since you've communicated that you scratched the record while opening it.
     
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  4. sirmikael

    sirmikael Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    You're right - it is good practice to ship the LPs outside of the sleeve, but the OP is saying that the actual record was just underneath the taped opening of the box.

    Even though I see the OP's point, I never use a knife to open boxes with records inside, to avoid this kind of thing. eBay is very buyer-friendly, but likely won't back him in this case.
     
  5. eddiel

    eddiel Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I agree with the others, eBay is likely to side with the seller, but you might as well leave it open and wait for an official outcome.

    This happened to me once but there was no damage to the lp cover. The knife cut through the tape and then just the shrink wrap. How I managed to avoid cutting into the cover is beyond me! But I learnt my lesson. I'm far more careful now.

    The seller should've had another cardboard protector over those lps but you can't always count on people doing thing right 100%, so it pays to be careful.
     
  6. Leviethan

    Leviethan Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    That's right. The LP was directly under the box flaps, in one of those super-thin inner plastic sleeves, partially covered by bubble wrap. It was practically touching the packing tape. I often ship LPs outside the sleeve myself, but I ALWAYS put cardboard between the album and the flaps, or I put the album facing down. If I screwed up like this, I would not fault the buyer at all, and I would give a full refund without a return. I'm not as worried about the money as I am the lack of care from the seller. I want to dent his perfect feedback score as a result. I have to decided before Friday whether I just take the loss and give him negative feedback, or pursue it further with eBay. He's only responded to me once and he was pretty cavalier about it.
     
  7. SJP

    SJP Forum Resident

    Location:
    Anaheim
    Sorry, I don't get it. You cut the packaging open and somehow it is the seller's fault???

    Sounds like his packaging got the LP to you in fine shape, a luxury many people cannot enjoy from some online retailers who do this for a living. The LP survived the journey. It didn't survive your knife. I hope you have the decency to chalk this one up to experience, closing the case against the seller, absorbing the loss and not tarnishing the seller's feedback.
     
  8. grsmnkey

    grsmnkey Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.S.A.
    While I feel the pain of the OP, I'd drop the case.

    If it was shipped in a standard LP mailer, you would have to have pushed the X-acto knife through the tape and down bit further to compensate for the thickness of the flaps (3/32" to 1/8") before hitting the LP.

    If the LP jacket was directly under the taped flaps, you would've cut into that. I've received plenty of LP's with or without Filler pads you have to be careful when opening, you never know how it's been packed.

    I could not really blame the Seller in this case.
     
  9. Quake1028

    Quake1028 Future former fatass

    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    I agree with both of these.
     
    showtaper likes this.
  10. R. Totale

    R. Totale The Voice of Reason

    Suppose the package inside had been flipped over? Instead of scraping the LP you would have lunched the cover and it still would have been your fault. You talk about "a thin layer of bubble wrap" and a plastic LP sleeve between the LP and the cardboard. I've got bubble wrap here, it's about 1/8" inch thick. A plastic LP sleeve is about 2 or 3 mil, same as packing tape. Even a cheap mailer's cardboard is probably a 16th of an inch. You were trying to cut .002 inches of tape with a blade at least 100 times that long, and you pushed it in too far. I don't think you can blame the seller or his packaging in any way.
     
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  11. Leviethan

    Leviethan Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Yes it is absolutely his fault. He packaged the album poorly. Just because it got to me safely, it didn't make it out of the package safely because he packaged it like an idiot.

    If I had cut the jacket instead of the album, I wouldn't care. I don't buy albums for the jackets, I buy them to listen to, which I can't do now.

    I said it was partially covered by bubble wrap. It was loosely wrapped around the sides of the record, but not the whole surface. I noticed that it was a crappy packing job before I saw the cut across the vinyl. Before I even pulled the albums out I was worried that they might be warped or bent, because that's how loose they were inside the box. As I said before, I always pack my LPs in such a way that this would not happen. If I didn't, and the buyer damaged the LP trying to get it out of my lazy packaging, then I would refund their money no questions asked. This guy was flippant and uncaring, so I feel like he needs to chalk this up to experience and not do a shoddy job packing LPs in the future. I could care less about the money at this point.

    Of course I will be more careful when I open packages from now on.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2016
  12. curbach

    curbach Some guy on the internet

    Location:
    The ATX
    It seems just about every opinion expressed in this thread has gone against you. Yet you remain defiantly entrenched in your original position. So why did you ask for our thoughts?
     
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  13. Leviethan

    Leviethan Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I'm not totally entrenched. I'm leaning towards closing the case, but I feel like the seller was a jerk about it. He could have at least apologized instead of lecturing me, and I would have let it go.
     
  14. sirmikael

    sirmikael Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    I know exactly what you mean. I ordered an SACD a while back, got a record instead. I'm extremely laid back, so I just sent the seller an email saying "Just so you know, your listing said SACD on one part, and LP on another, but the title said SACD. I received the record. No need for a refund, but please be careful" and I got a bitchy response back.
     
  15. Dave S

    Dave S Forum Resident

    If in doubt, ask. Someone recently listed a copy of Purple Rain on ebay with a picture of the French target CD. The back cover was a more recent issue. It turns out that they didn't have the French target CD, but the rather run of the mill recent issue. They just pulled some images from the internet. Not the first time that has happened.
     
  16. sirmikael

    sirmikael Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    You're absolutely right, which is why I didn't give the seller negative feedback or ask for money back. I should have asked before buying.
     
    Dave S likes this.
  17. Dave S

    Dave S Forum Resident

    I personally don't take a knife to any package. Usually I first try to unpeel the tape. If it doesn't budge, then I ease some tape away and cut it with scissors. Some packages are a pain to open, but it's better than damaged contents. Just be thankful they used a mailer.
     
    rebellovw likes this.
  18. rebellovw

    rebellovw Forum Resident

    Location:
    hell
    You have to be extremely careful with a blade opening a record or anything. Always assume as you cut down you are cutting into your item - so don't cut down.
     
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  19. Dave S

    Dave S Forum Resident

    Yep, through the tape and no more.
     
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  20. Locutus67

    Locutus67 Forum Resident

    I suggest when using an Xacto blade to keep the cutting edge facing upward as you open the package/cover ect. You pierce the shrink & slice it open with a slight pull upward. This minimizes the risk of slicing deeper than you intended. A fresh blade gives best results & it's perfect for slicing the shrink on those movie box sets into 4 flaps & not harming the contents. Sliding the inner contents back into the 4 flaps creates a dust seal & keeps the shrinked box looking new.
     
    Rodz42 likes this.
  21. Wally Swift

    Wally Swift Yo-Yoing where I will...

    Location:
    Brooklyn New York
    As a seller I always ship LPs outside of their covers. The discs should be inside a plastic sleeve with the cover. The stiffener should be placed in the box first, then the bagged LP with the discs facing the stiffener. This way the back of the LP cover is closest to the place where you open the box. On more expensive records I add additional stiffeners.

    As a buyer I always use extreme care when opening up boxes because not everyone has common sense.

    Sounds like both of you are partially to blame.
     
    NotOneStraw and Vinyl Addict like this.
  22. Vinyl Addict

    Vinyl Addict Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
    I never run the knife facing down when opening ANY box. The reason is as you described above.

    I always cut the 2 sides and then pull the long taped side up off the box a bit and run the blade in there at an angle to prevent any damages.

    Unless you specifically requested the LPs be shipped in a certain manner ( and the seller agreed), Id say you are s.o.l.
     
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  23. Leviethan

    Leviethan Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    You know, I often do that with sellers who don't seem to sell a lot of vinyl. This guy seems to only sell vinyl, so I figured he would know how to pack it properly.

    That's exactly what I'm going to do. If eBay sides with the seller, then I'll chalk it up to lesson learned. If they side with me, then hopefully the guy will do a better job packing albums in the future. I could just leave the guy negative feedback, and part of me really thinks I should because of his attitude, but I won't. Of course I will be more careful opening LP boxes from now on.

    I forgot to mention that the album was the Buddy Holly Legend compilation mastered by our host, if that makes any difference. :D
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2016
  24. Vinyl Addict

    Vinyl Addict Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
    I'd be very surprised if EBay sided with you. In fact, the right thing to do would be to cancel the case.

    You cut through the tape, the cardboard, the bubble wrap, and into the LP.
     
  25. Joseph.McClure

    Joseph.McClure Forum Resident

    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    This is why I don't sell my albums anymore.
     
    Vinyl Addict likes this.
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