Anyone else having this issue with the Elac Debut B6?

Bass notes (i.e., notes played by an acoustic or electric bass) have a tendency to resonate and sound like low drones--almost more the sound of a low horn than a stringed instrument. This is somewhat independent of placement, even though they aren't nearly as far away from the rear wall as I'm sure they should be. I haven't had quite this kind of problem with other speakers (including rear-ported ones) in the same location.

Is this just the nature of the speaker? Or does it sound more like a malfunction?

 

"I listened to the track again. The Debut B6es still sounded impressive. However, this time I heard that vibrating box—not a little, but a lot. This recording features only a low, chesty male voice and a strongly plucked double bass. A lot of 80–400Hz energy was channeling straight from the artists and through these modest Elac boxes in my 1100-cubic-foot Brooklyn studio. Impulsively, I jumped up and put my hands on their cabinets as the music continued. They were vibrating like sex toys!"

From the Stereophile review of the Debut B6
Elac Debut B6 loudspeaker Page 2 »

 

Oops.

The thing is, his conclusion is that he likes the speaker. His praise for it in his concluding paragraph is pretty unreserved. What I'm hearing--if it's the same thing he was hearing--pretty much disqualifies it from even casual pleasurable listening. It's not like a small flaw that can be overlooked. But maybe one man's small flaw is another man's "I can't bear to listen to this"? I never thought I was that picky.

 

It's an inexpensive speaker, and the cabinet is usually the most expensive component. I suppose you could try damping it by stacking bags of rice on the top. I suspect the speaker is balanced with the resonance in mind and too much damping could end up making it sound too thin. Worth a shot anyway I suppose.

 

I shouldn't complain, because like you say the speaker is cheap, but I expect speakers to have tonal flaws, weak spots and such. I don't expect speakers recommended by Stereophile to actually change the sound of musical instruments so that they don't even sound like themselves. Live and learn.

 

That does sound really disappointing. I do agree that even though it's cheap, a ~300 USD/EUR speaker that has strong malicious resonances is a bit iffy, seeing as there are many alternatives at that price point. I have to clarify that I've never heard a pair, and up to their introduction they were hyped up to high heaven by seemingly everyone who heard them. Seeing that, I wouldn't expect those kind of issues either.

 

andrew jones explained that it happens on one specific frequency and should not happen that often during everyday use.
do you hear the issue frequently or on a few recordings?

 

Indeed he did. In the "Manufacturer's Response" to the Stereophile review, Andrew went on to explain that at this price point, decisions must be made on which area of performance to compromise on. Basically, you can't have everything at that price. Given the praise his inexpensive designs have garnered, he seems to be making the right decisions.
-Bob

 

agreed. i heard the new UB5 at AXPONA and it is really something special for the $499 price point.

 

I hear it more frequently than I would like. It's somewhat genre-dependent. In an orchestral recording, in which bass notes are in the mix but not way out front, I don't mind it too much. In a recording of a smaller group (jazz or singer-songwriter rock), in which the bass is prominent in the mix, it bothers me.

 

I heard about this issue and I'm glad I didn't buy them since I nearly pulled the trigger. Then again for all I know, my speakers do the same thing if they are cranked loud enough. I suspect it's an issue with lots of speakers in the same price range.

I've seen examples of people modifying speakers to make them better and wonder if there is an easy way to fix the resonance issue short of transplanting the speaker internals to a better cabinet? Better insulation inside or something? Maybe someone can chime in on that.

 

If you don't mind opening the speakers up, adding bracing can't make it any worse. Though depending on how the speaker was voiced, removing the resonance might make it sound thin. More than likely though it will just get rid of the annoying buzz.
Also, stacking heavy stuff on top the thing might look wack, but it does work.

 

It has been noted that these speakers are a little power hungry but if you are driving them with the NAD in your profile I would think 150 watts would be plenty.

 

that stinks.
i notice that the speaker terminal block can be removed. you might be able to feed in several squares of dynamat to line the enclosure from the inside. that stuff works wonders. i used it extensively in my car and it does the job.

Amazon.com: Dynamat 10435 12" x 36" x 0.067" Thick Self-Adhesive Sound Deadener with Xtreme Door Kit: Automotive »

 

Another thing- what is the speaker resting on? Bookshelf? Lightweight stand? Any isolation bumps?

 

I hear they're very popular with women.

 

Andrew Jones, (the speaker's designer), has voiced this. It is, after all, a $280 pair of speakers. Compromises were intelligently enacted.

 

Actually, they're currently being driven by another NAD amp, the 40-watt 315BEE (which I generally like the sound of). Do you think that could be the problem?

I realize their siting is far from optimal, but other speakers in the same siting have not had this problem to the same extent. The speakers are on adjustable metal shelves whose surfaces are kind of a tight metal mesh, as part of an "entertainment unit" from Room & Board. There is a tiny bit of springiness to the shelves but not very much. (You can depress the shelves a small amount if you press hard.) Do you think this could be the problem? Isolation feet (the "big fat dots" from Herbie's) will be arriving in the mail shortly. Maybe they'll help?

 

From everything I've read I think they need more than 40 watts. Try them with your other amp.

 

I would try to get them on proper stands, or at the very least on a solid heavy piece of furniture, such as a console or even a horizontal Ikea Kallax loaded with records. You need something for the interface between the speaker and the surface. Bluetak would do, or the dots you're expecting. They will never perform well on the mesh storage rack. Also they are inefficient and I would think they would do well with more than 40 watts.
I have on track that excites a certain bass frequency which vibrates my MMG speakers. It is the plucked bass on Diana Krall's All or Nothing At All. I'd say try the recommendations above before you give up on them.

 

You could certainly try Auralex Mopads, I use them under my KEF LS50 speakers, they tightened up the bass nicely
Auralex Acoustics | MoPAD™/MoPAD-XL™ »

 

Will try these things. Thanks.

 

Personally I think you'll have more success if you can unscrew the speaker terminal housing and see if you can fit your hand in there to apply some peel and stick Dynamat to the inner walls of the enclosure.
The noted DIY designer Troels Gravesen uses the European version of Dynamat extensively. In Europe they are called bitumen pads and add mass and vibration damping to the walls of the cabinet. The softer materiel is also good but that will not address the vibration sonic issues as much as the Dynamat will.
Cabinet-damping »

Even Harbeth uses Euro Dynamat!
Harbeth Super HL5plus loudspeaker »

 

Great. I'm anxious to hear how they sound with more power.

 

I've got 35 tube wpc to my B6's and it's plenty.