Meatloaf Bat Out of Hell - What Went Wrong?

John Parr refers to him as "Meat" when he talks about him. It was nice to have that question answered for myself as I wondered too.

 

This album is pretty much what it is. Never going to sound better than adequate on a wide range system. Not for revealing systems.

 

Hey now!

 

The main culprit for me in BPOHell is the lack of bass. Not sure if mastering can solve this. From my understanding this is a mixing issue.

 

Ellen was a super fox ! Wow.

 

and what an incredible voice!
She slays on Ian Hunter's "Just Another Night"

 

It's pretty sad to lose the effort that came with the original recording. So much hope and care was surely invested. To lose it is like losing a master's painting from a museum.

 

Really? You thought it sounded "incredible"? That wasn't my impression at all. On the original (even with all the pops and ticks from 35 years of being played) you can hear when the drums, or guitar, or vocals, were elevated in volume to emphasize them. On the Friday version everything sounded flat - the same volume. I can only liken it to the difference between hearing something and experiencing something. The Friday version was high quality in materials, but the original was high quality in mixing.

 

I don't know much about the studio recording process, but when they have a multi-track recording, isn't the bass (for instance) recorded on its own track? And if that's the case, why couldn't it be remixed?

 

As it should be

 

"When a series is created to intentionally create superior marketing at a higher price point."

I'm assuming someone at Sony saw the MFSL stuff and went "why don't we do that, and just keep all the money?"

 

Seeing the high quality of the Santana S/T that Sony released under the same series, what the hell happened here?

 

I gave up on this title (searching for the best sounding), I have three variants, that's enough. And as you said -it's the tunes that carry the weight

 

This thread has prompted me to dig out the SACD and play the 5.1 version of "Paradise..." as I didn't know any of the above.

Being somewhat inattentive, I never properly listened to the whole album in 5.1, so listening now and realising that Ellen Foley's vocals are missing, along with the groaning in the spoken section, was quite a surprise.

The liner notes: "The 5.1 surround sound mix was created using the original multitrack master tapes, with two exceptions: the completed multitrack masters for "Paradise By The Dashboard Light" and "Heaven Can Wait" were destroyed in a fire. For "Paradise...", the only existing multitracks were missing some final overdubs, which have been recreated in the studio by some of the original artists. Unfortunately, no multitrack master for "Heaven Can Wait" could be located. Ted Jensen has created a 5.1 surround mix from the original existing tw0-track mix tape."

The liner notes then credit Meat Loaf, Bruce Kulick, Bob Kulick, Joe Stefko, Paul Glanz, Steve Buslowe, Karla DeVito, Rory Dodd and Jim Steinman (with the 5.1 version of "Paradise..." I assume).

The original musician credits are still there above the lyrics to "Paradise..." and credit Ellen Foley, Todd Rundgren, Roy Bittan, Kasim Sultan, Max Weinberg, Edgar Winter, Jim Steinman, Roger Powell, Rory Dodd, "Marvin Lee" and Phil Rizzuto.

Given the number of musicians credited with the 5.1 version I suspect there are much more than a few overdubs missing, though I haven't got time right now to compare with either the SACD stereo layer or the one CD version I have (can't find the CD right now to confirm which release it is, but it is a newer release with "Dead Ringer for Love" added on to the end).

 

I'll correct myself before someone else does; I think the credits featuring the Kulicks refer to the two live tracks on the SACD. It's also suggested over on Quadraphonic Quad that Patti Russo redid the lead female vocal.

 

Maybe the upcoming SACD sounds.....

 

Doesn't mean they were all bad, but as a series, they weren't done with the same kind of care that the more reputable 'audiophile' labels were/are known for. It seems like a marketing exercise that occasionally resulted in a good product, but not with regularity.

 

No Ellen, No Paradise!

 

This.

In the very early 1990's I met and spent some time chatting with Joe Brescio, the original mastering engineer for this LP. We got onto the topic of this album because it came up in conversation I owned the 1980 half-speed issue of the LP and his advice was to dump it. He said stick with original first pressings of the LP as these would sound the best. (Not that he thought it was a great sounding record to begin with.)

He described the original mastering of the LP as extremely brutal, with massive EQ and level moves being done on the fly as he cut the lacquers because the tape as delivered sounded not just horrible, but completely inconsistent from track to track. He was told by Todd and Jim that they knew it really should be remixed, but they didn't have the time (or the money) to do so. They had to work with what they had.

He said he, Jim, and Todd spent more time getting that tape to "sound of a whole" while still being viable for cutting onto lacquer than any other mastering he was to that point involved with. It took forever to cut usable lacquers for it because of all the real time manipulation needed during cutting. He was very proud of his work though, especially after it became such a huge hit. It sure caused him headaches though.

So, according to him, while all the moves and tricks used to master the LP were documented, aside from the first pressing of the album using his lacquers, any other pressing or version either came from a copy tape made while they did the original mastering (making it even murkier because it was one more tape generation off) or from someone else at another mastering facility trying to recreate his work using the first generation mixdown tape and his notes but using different equipment than the Master Cutting Room had, so it wouldn't sound the same.

I got rid of the half-speed version I owned soon after and got a 1A pressing of the LP and never looked back.

After hearing that backstory, I'm not surprised to hear every other version of the album has been a letdown or somehow "off."

 

Did he have a pair of dice by a.........No! I won't do it!

She was a substitute card dealer on the "Card Sharks" game show in the late 70s.

 

Far and away the most informative post, and I thank you, as well as everyone else, for confirming and describing the reasons why my ears cried.

Any idea how to verify a 1A pressing? I'd definitely search for one if I was sure I could grab the right thing online or at StreetLight or Amebae.

 

You're welcome!

It's easy to tell since Epic was a CBS label and it and Columbia used a consistent code. Look in the inner groove for the stamped or printed matrix number, AL 34974 for Side One and BL 34974 for Side Two and look for the characters after it. You're looking for "1A" "1B" "1C" etc. Pretty much anything with a 1 before a single letter. (It goes up to "1G" if I'm remembering Columbia's lacquer identification sequence correctly.) Anything starting with a "2" (like "2A, 2B etc) or a double letter "1" (like 1AB, 1AC) are second and beyond pressings and should be avoided. Since this was a mastering done at an outside facility, the matrix number/lacquer number should be handwritten, not machined stamped as when Columbia/Epic did the mastering in-house, but I don't have my copy here so I could be wrong about that.

 

My old copy, with all the pops and ticks (that still sounds miles better than the Friday release) is a 4AA. Even being a 4AA I swear I can hear so much more emphasis on the parts that make the songs.

Example is the snare drum right after the opening dialog "I bet you say that to all the boys" on Bat Out of Hell. On the Friday version it is muted, whereas on the Epic version it's crisp and louder.

I'm going on the hunt tonight. It'd be great to hear a cleaner version of the songs mixed by your friend. He really did a great job, and my 35 year old copy is pretty worn.

 

You mean "We A Gotta Get Out of This Place"? She does harmony vocals on "Just" but has no leads.

 

No, I mean her vocal work on "Just Another Night"
She makes that song!