Life without tone controls ... it sucks!

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by albertoderoma, Mar 19, 2011.

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  1. Cant live without my DSP. Certain Frequencies cause too much bass boom due the room.
     
  2. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL

    My approach as well;)
     
  3. sudon't

    sudon't Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Cape Fear
    No doubt. Yet, that's not always possible, or even desirable. Sometimes one wants to enjoy music while others are sleeping, or even simply when others are in the house. Nor do I always want to be throwing 95 db at my ears.
    I went from having tone controls on my preamps, (McIntosh), to a preamp without them. Although, when I had them, it seemed like I rarely moved them from the flat position, they were more useful than I realized, mainly for listening at low levels, and occasionally to correct source material a bit. It seems to me that the best solution is by-passable tone controls. At least, I wish some manufacturers would offer that option. Who else, besides McIntosh, offers any tone control at all, anymore? I've been looking for such a preamp, and haven't seen any others.
    Also, I think this notion of signal purity is overblown. Let's not forget, the signal in your source material has already been heavily EQed, and travelled through many, many circuits already, if only through a mixing board. An extra pot or two, assuming quality components, isn't going to hurt it. What I do wish manufacturers would dump are balance controls. Or at least offer a by-pass.
     
  4. riddlemay

    riddlemay Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    I tried out the Marantz 8005 integrated, attracted by the 3 (not just 2) tone controls. In addition to not loving the sound of the amp (too "dirty" sounding to my ears), I found the extra ("midrange") tone control just one too many. Could not come up with a position for it that felt like an improvement. I like having a bass and treble control on my NAD integrated, because those are simple; introduce one more variable, and--for me--that way lies madness.
     
  5. sudon't

    sudon't Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Cape Fear
    Flat? ; )

    Yeah, I get that - the urge to fiddle. I agree that bass and treble are usually enough. It's really about mimicking what a "loudness" switch does. Then again, if you had too much mid-range presence, and couldn't eliminate it from your room, dialing it back might help.
     
  6. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    I dunno. Personally I think less is more in analog circuitry, absolutely, I don't think signal purity is overblown. Whatever choices the engineers and artists have made in recording, mixing and mastering, that's a fixed thing, not relevant at all to what we do or don't do at playback. All we're trying to do with playback is reproduce what they fixed on some medium.

    I never have the time or inclination to bother with tone controls nor every found them all that useful either. Haven't had 'em on any home hifi gear in 20 or 30 years and haven't missed 'em. If I'm listening at low levels in the evening, I just assume it's going to sound different than listening at high levels. As I said earlier in this thread at one point I spend some time with some parametric eq's from my home demo studio rig in my hifi change and dialed in a big of a flat response at the listening position with test tones. I get why someone would do that with sweeps and parametrics or DSP or something. But continually futzing with tone controls disk after disk and for one playback level or another, life's too short for that as far as I'm concerned. If someone else gets a kick out of that, or like a Fletcher-Munson correction kind of "loudness" thing, good for them. Personally I'm fine without them.
     
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  7. Carl Swanson

    Carl Swanson Senior Member

    What science?
     
  8. hesson11

    hesson11 Forum Resident

    Geez, I didn't realize the 8005 had a midrange control! But looking it up, I see that the center frequency is 900 Hz. I was thinking something centered aroud 2k Hz might be useful for taming brightly recorded violins, which occasionally are the bane of my classical-music-loving existence. I wonder how adjusting the 900 Hz center point might affect that.
    -Bob
     
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  9. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL

    Get a parametric eq ASAP. Violins can be excrutiating if not recorded properly.
     
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  10. hesson11

    hesson11 Forum Resident

    I hear you, 'freak, but it probably doesn't happen often enough to warrant a whole new piece of kit. On occasion, though, if I'm playing music from my computer, I'll use the music-player program's EQ to add a little bit of the old "BBC dip." Works pretty well!

    BTW, I wonder what the anti-tone-control folks think about using the EQ in their software.
    -Bob
     
    The Pinhead likes this.
  11. russk

    russk Forum Resident

    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    I once saw one of them die when that was suggested.
     
  12. jtw

    jtw Forum Resident

    Fletcher-Munson curves here: Fletcher–Munson curves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia »

    So, even if you went to the very studio where the mastering, or whatever, was done, and your brain and ears were wired exactly the same as the folks doing the work, you wouldn't hear the music exactly as they intended unless you had the volume at the same level.

    OK. I'm new to this stuff. And I'm sure the folks without tone controls all have amazing sounding systems. But I can't afford to do my tone control by buying a new cartridge, or amp, or preamp, or low WAF room treatments. I use knobs.
     
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  13. everton

    everton Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    To me, this is the essence of the issue. If we agree that cartridges, amp, wires, etc. can sound different, then the gears that we chose already alter the sound in some way, and so the argument about wanting to hear the sound as the artists/sound engineers intended is not very convincing. Now, if people say that using bass and treble controls can introduce distortions or can mess up the sound, then that is a valid argument.
     
  14. Joseph.McClure

    Joseph.McClure Forum Resident

    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    Does anyone know if Lennon or McCartny used tone controls?
     
  15. Matt Richardson

    Matt Richardson Forum Resident

    Location:
    Suburban Chicago
    Are you asking about their personal home stereos or their recording process at Abbey Road?
     
  16. Joseph.McClure

    Joseph.McClure Forum Resident

    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    at home...
     
  17. bluesky

    bluesky Senior Member

    Location:
    south florida, usa
    Life without tone controls ... it sucks!
     
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  18. royzak2000

    royzak2000 Senior Member

    Location:
    London,England
    Never found any reason for tone controls, the last amp I had with them was an Audiolab thirty yeas ago, I soon learned to switch them out they degraded the sound and served no purpose.
    Since then I have not had an amp with these horrors, and to use an equaliser between the purity of your source and speakers, it's just not Hi-Fi.
    Maybe that is not what you are after. Hi-Fi I mean.
     
  19. Matt Richardson

    Matt Richardson Forum Resident

    Location:
    Suburban Chicago
    I really don't know, but I wished Stereophile would do a celebrity section and go into artist's homes to have them introduce and talk about their personal hi-fi gear. Sort of like what Architectural Digest does with celebrity homes in general (but only focus on home theater/stereo stuff).
     
  20. jtw

    jtw Forum Resident

    But understand that, as a result of our perception of sound, using the exact same equipment without tone control, the same recording that is bass light at low volumes will be bass heavy at high volumes.
     
  21. Pastafarian

    Pastafarian Forum Resident

    Well I can tell you that Martin Price of 808 State bought his LP12 after listening to my system, can't remember what else but probably Naim amps.
     
    808_state likes this.
  22. Matt Richardson

    Matt Richardson Forum Resident

    Location:
    Suburban Chicago
    Wait a second while I google Martin Price...
     
    WapatoWolf likes this.
  23. 808_state

    808_state ヤマハで再生中

    808 State? Are they new?? ; )
     
  24. royzak2000

    royzak2000 Senior Member

    Location:
    London,England
    Not new but cool took their name from the Roland drum machine.
     
  25. Carl Swanson

    Carl Swanson Senior Member

    I don't mess with any of that. I just listen at a moderate volume that lets the music emerge.
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
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