Speakers. Jumper wires instead of supplied plates. Any sonic benefits?

DYSWIDT?

 

I was careful to use the phrase 'subjectively', because - like all the pro-jumper people - that's all my experience was worth, i.e. purely anecdotal. It is the responsibility of the persons claiming a change to provide empirical evidence for that change, until then we must be sceptical.

Why? A piece of hi-fi is designed to perform a specific electronic task. One expects an amplifier to have a flat frequency response in the audible range, one expects a CD player or DAC to be able to provide the resolution it is advertised for, one expects speakers to have the frequency response they are advertised for. We're buying incredibly marked up goods, we should expect them to perform at the basic level and one requires measuring apparatus to discern whether or not they do that (God knows we can't trust the hi-fi press to do that for us). I have made all my purchasing decisions based on a combination of specs, measurements, and listening. I'm fully aware however, that if two DACs (for example) measure the same in the audible band then - despite what my subjective brain may tell me - they are the same. If the black box sounds darker than the silver box but they measure the same then I can thank my brain for the difference.

As it stands, most manufacturers of the above items do provide specs and we can repeat those specs at home with simple measurements. Where are the specs for the differences in jumper cables?

 

Nobody says otherwise, and has not so much to do with this thread. Or are You saying that those, who hear differences between 'jumpers'; they like music more, appreciate music more, and hear subtleties in music better. Nah, You can´t really be saying that can You?

 

D.D.,

Well said in my opinion. My beliefs are very simple. I believe that I honestly could not reliably tell the difference between cheap plate jumpers and better built jumper cables. I don't doubt for a second that some people can tell the differences. But my point has consistently been that can those that hear differences chose which is which in a blind A-B test? I don't believe I'm being disrespectful to anyone by asking those that hear differences would they be able to tell which is which in a controlled A-B test. Once again if an individual is adamant about hearing the differences then why not show all those (like myself) that it is in fact. That's what I don't understand in that why wouldn't one want to prove those like myself all wrong.

As far as why you hear what you hear and why others might not is quite simple IMO. It's that ones mind can influence what we hear in so many different ways. It can be due to mood, attention span, tired or well rested etc. Or that one's mind is influenced by the fact that changes in their system were just made. At times when I've made changes in my system I listen more intently. Awhile back I changed my speaker cables from home made Monoprice cables to Signal Cable cables. I sat down with the intent to hear differences and thought I did. But then I honestly couldn't recall what the Monoprice cables sounded like. I've listened to the same music on my system on different days and due to my frame of mind at that time it's sounded better or worse. Same music and same system with no changes. I strongly believe that ones mind influences what we hear more than anything else.

As far as SACDs you make a good point. When I first started collecting SACDs my beliefs were that SACDs must sound better than any other version of any specific title. Well after spending time here on SH I found out real quick that isn't the case. Now it's more about the mix and mastering than any disc format available. I still buy SACDs for the multichannel mixes and just from a collectors perspective. Many stereo SACDs from MOFI, APO and AF are the best digital versions but not definitively.

Bill

 

I think you are right, and this is exactly why A/B testing in this scenario is problematic. The human brain remains as a larger variable than the electronic equipment changes being tested.

 

That is of course in many cases true, and an explanation for some difficulties with not controlled testing.
But the obvious reasons for A/B testing is that we should be able to compare a tone with another tone as objective as it can be done. So the brain remembers exactly what it perceived, and can nearly instantly compare that with a new tone.
It isn´t easy to think of a way that can control biases better.

 

Please spare us the sanctimonious platitudes.

You posed a question on which you obviously knew there were widely opposing views. Frankly, I think the discussion remained reasonably civil on the whole considering the subject matter.

Furthermore, it is clear by your tone that your views on the matter had already be formed before opening this topic, yet cry foul when you didn't get the unaminous cheerleading squad you hoped for? Sometimes is only by hashing things out are new ideas unlocked & new insights revealed.

As to the cost - you cannot possibly be serious.

In the final analysis, what does it matter to you what anybody else thinks?

And if you prefer forums where [respectful] free speech, thoughts and ideas are restricted - I suggest you post further queries elsewhere.

 

My questions are about where is the line between a tone and complex music in terms of testing? Are there physical or other catalysts that put the body and brain into a focused listening mode that are related to biological evolution? How do test environments relate to optimizing engagement of the brain in taking in rather than filtering out audio stimulus? Might be that careful listening in one's own familiar environment sets up higher-order nerological functioning in regards to listening, and may create special pathways or inteligences related to the task.

Again, the brain is the unknown territory much more than basic electronics. Which is not to eliminate the idea that there may be a few new areas of inquiry in relations to simple signal transfer left for us to refine.

 

You can of course work with these different ideas. In the meantime we have to use the best methods known.

 

Hi,

No one is prohibiting you to post on this thread. I have not asked you to stop posting. I suggest you re-read my OP and also re-read your last reply (when calm). Particularly your suggestion for me to leave this forum.

The facts stand.

- you missed the point of my OP
- you contributed nothing to this discussion
- you hi-jacked this thread to incite and wage the "subjectivist vs objectivist" and now you engaged in a witch hunt.

Regards

 

"Where are the specs for the differences in jumper cables?"

Where are the specs for the entire cable industry? In the magic white paper ? What a sick joke.