Led Zeppelin Japan Sept 28 1971 board sample (youtube link)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by eddiel, Jul 23, 2016.

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  1. eddiel

    eddiel Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    For the Zep I bonus tracks he had little to work with so I think the Paris 69 was a forced conclusion rather than a real contender for release. For the rest of the releases he had enough material that qualified so there was no need to include anything like the tape this track is from. The Paris show wasn't an official standalone release but rather a bonus anyway. It's two different product types. I don't think they'd ever have released that Paris 69 if he found enough outtakes relating to Zep I. Actually, I think if Paris 69 was an awful performance, we'd probably have gotten a bunch of outtakes from those sessions akin to what's on bootlegs now, even though he didn't want to include that sort of stuff, because he would've had no choice.

    TSRTS maybe edited but it's from multi's and the SQ is there. That's one of the problems with shows that aren't multi-tracked you can't edit them in the same way.
     
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  2. eddiel

    eddiel Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Well a lot of fans weren't happy with the edits in the first version of the soundtrack and even unhappier with the second version of the soundtrack. :)

    I think many, including me, wouldn't mind seeing a straight up audio only release from that run without edits, to match the visuals, or otherwise.
     
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  3. eddiel

    eddiel Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    That's definitely an issue should they want to change the actual movie.

    Not sure about the soundtrack but I doubt it because the first soundtrack was different to the second soundtrack. So if it was an issue, it was easily circumvented.
     
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  4. Daniel Falaschi

    Daniel Falaschi Live detective

    Location:
    Edinburgh
    I don´t want to get into the "are the companion discs rubbish?" thing again, but from my point of view, the Paris 69 disc was the only thing that was essential from them. I mean, would we have prefered a Communication Breakdown rough mix with vocals take or Paris? Hence, would we have prefered the Kashmir "orchestral" take or at least a full Earls Court show? Black dog rough mix or Japan 71? I think that goes even for the general fan, not least the dedicated one.
     
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  5. guidedbyvoices

    guidedbyvoices Old Dan's Records

    Location:
    Alpine, TX
    i agree it's not perfect but there's great fan edits that already did the job. I'd rather now get something new from them then make small changes they probably still won't do to our satisfaction!
     
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  6. guidedbyvoices

    guidedbyvoices Old Dan's Records

    Location:
    Alpine, TX
    Before hearing the companion stuff, I would've said a million times for any studio outtake or rough mix. Because I wanted to hear stuff in the vault we'd never known existed like la la, key to the highway. I've never liked bring it on home but the outtake is incredible. So yeah maybe 2/3 of the companions are life changing, but if you asked me before they were released, I'd say the bootleggers already helped us with Paris 69, Japan 72 and near perfect quality earls court. Let's hear the studio companions instead
     
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  7. matt79rome89

    matt79rome89 Forum Resident

    I'm speaking a little out of hand as I haven't followed the Zep bootleg or news circuit in about 10 years, but can we say for certain there are no multi tracks from 1977? Did someone from Zep make that statement? They were near the height of their fame on the 1977 tour and technology and the music industry had progressed to the point most big acts were recording at least some of their concerts professionally. Also, was 1972 LA/Long Beach always known to be in the vault?
     
  8. ledsox

    ledsox Senior Member

    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    IIRC, the plan was to record during the second leg of the US tour. Of course, when Plant's child passed away that tour never happened.
     
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  9. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    Inferior meaning there is nothing multitracked from 1977 or 1980 -- JP is likely not going to release entire audio sets of inferior audio that he cannot manipulate. Now one can make the argument that some of the BBC audio is less than desirable and he released about half a CD's worth back in 1997, but the era in question was 1969, not 1977 or 1980 where there are uneven performance issues to deal with. As far as Knebworth goes, it was not a particularly great set of gigs, and I am not convinced that there is an entire commercial project available from the tapes. That said, I do think there is the potential for a compelling expansive project from Earls Court. It will be interesting to see what and if anything is developed after the upcoming BBC reissue. There are rumors that JP has some footage of Bath 1970 and possibly a multitrack tape, possibly some multitracks of club gigs from 1971 (based on an old interview quote that could be completely inaccurate), the Japan 1971 tapes, a couple of leftovers from LA and Long Beach 1972, Southhampton 1973, left over tape from MSG 1973, Earls Court 1975, and Knebworth 1979. Could there be more? Possibly, but it seems doubtful. Japan 1971 and Earls Court 1975 seem like the most likely contenders, but who really knows.
     
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  10. Near perfect quality soundboard?
     
  11. ledsox

    ledsox Senior Member

    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    A correction. 4 dates occurred. 7 had to be cancelled after the death of Plant's son.

    Also, I believe Jimmy found the HTWWW recordings while searching through material for the DVD set of 2003. There is no mention of '72 multitrack recordings in the Concert File book from 1997 by Dave Lewis. The 2 live songs found on the Studio Daze boot (1990?) were thought to be from soundboard but seem to be early rough mixes of the multis. Not sure of the story behind those mixes but I'm pretty sure the band forgot that they recorded the '72 LA/Long Beach gigs.
     
  12. If we're just wishing I'd much rather have soundboards released from 1969 through the European tour of 1973, officially or from the bootleggers. There's so much out there from the US tour of '73 through 1980 already. I really don't need another '75 or '77 soundboard (well I'd take 3/21/75 but other than that...).
     
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  13. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    EV are releasing this as a bonus track on a bootleg. Why are so many assuming/hoping this will cause Page to release something officially? As far as I know this has never set any precedent for him to do so. The opposite happened with the deluxe editions, where he left off material since it was on bootlegs.
     
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  14. deanrelax

    deanrelax Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    Yes, we're moving away form the topic. Anyway, when it comes to the New York concerts in 1973, the problem I was referring to is that I believe that Led Zeppelin can only release the concerts as part of an expanded soundtrack, i.e. there might be contractual obligations making it difficult to release New York 1973 as a "stand alone" edition, just like I think the Stones at MSG in 1969 is tangled up between ABKCO, the brothers Maysles and the Stones.

    When it comes to Japan 1971 as an official release, I guess we'll have to wait and see. Should any release be forthcoming, at this stage, I believe its more likely to be a copyright control issue in 2021.

    Here's hoping though for an unofficial soundboard surprise.
     
  15. I don't think we'll ever see any of the Japan '71 tapes officially released. Now that this sample has been released though I'd be shocked if we don't see a full release from Empress Valley in the upcoming months.
     
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  16. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    If he was concerned about bootleg content, then the argument could be made that there would have been little reason to release the L.A. 1972 audio as part of HTWWW, or any of the Earls Court and Knebworth footage. I doubt he cares much about what is already on bootlegs; he wants to present the best possible performances. The companion bonus discs largely contained "alternate" mixes very close in sound and presentation to the masters, and backing tracks sans vocals presenting an alternate view of the masters. He wanted Led Zeppelin to sound its best; not to show any vulnerabilities that may be evident in embryonic versions of songs. It seems he was more concerned with not releasing too much material presenting underdeveloped performances because he certainly released quality tracks that had been previously bootlegged such as Everybody Makes It Through and Jennings Farm Blues. But I do agree that the release of a quality audio soundboard performance from Japan 1971 is not going to affect what he decides to the with the Japan multitracks in his possession, and I don't think it will influence him not to release the material simply because it is booted. He will release Japan 1971 or Earls Court 1975 if he thinks it will benefit the band's legacy.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016
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  17. Mark7

    Mark7 Forum Resident

    For the Zep I companion the '69 Fillmore or Texas Pop "boards" could have been used instead of Paris, maybe even a compilation of the best bits. Maybe Page doesn't have access or the masters to these? I guess it doesn't matter as we have all this stuff anyway, but Paris is almost unlistenable (to me) with the hokey effects etc. A bad representation for the band.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016
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  18. Gersh

    Gersh Forum Resident

    Okay will spell out. On Never Mind The Bollocks, to get the dense guitar sound, Thomas and Jones overdubbed guitars. Jones' wasn't able at the time to get that sound with one guitar, if he had, there would have been no overdubbing. When the Sex Pistols reformed to tour 10 years ago or so, the kind of equipment and live production available to Jones enabled him to sound as the guitars did on the album.

    In the 2007 live reunion album, Page was able to do the same, at least it is mixed or produced to sound like that. Whereas in the 70s, when he soloed on single notes, the lack of a rhythm part is usually quite evident. (In HTWWW, due to mixing and possibly effects added, plus some overdubbing apparently, it sounds very full).

    Pete Townshend and Jimi Hendrix never sounded thin whether playing single notes or rhythm. In Pete's case, it was extreme volume, the Hiwatts and distortion, and also John helping to make the sound very full. For Jimi, he was just a genius... Got it now?
     
  19. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    I actually don't think there is an issue with The Rolling Stones and the New York 1969 multitracks; ABKCO simply owns the tapes like all the other pre-1971 tapes, so in order to release the 1969 concert material, it has to go through ABKCO.

    With "The Song Remains The Same," I would imagine the only potential contractual issues pertains to the use of footage (and interestingly enough, Page did use footage for the band's self-titled DVD), not the audio. The audio was always a separate project and owned and solely released through Swan Song. And with regard to the footage, the biggest issue is probably how it is released as part of the film "The Song Remains The Same" -- JP and others likely cannot alter the film's visuals and sequencing without permission, but everyone knows it is still a complicated subject, so clearly it is all speculation.
     
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  20. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    There was no overdubbing on HTWWW. Editing and the creation of composite versions of songs, yes, but no modern-era overdubbing.
     
  21. eddiel

    eddiel Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Yeah they probably don't have access to those masters or, in the case of Texas Pop, don't even know who does have them.
     
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  22. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    Aside from some unnecessary editing on the official release, the Paris concert is a good one from 1969. When the underground recording of it appeared several years ago, fans were blown away by it, particularly the sound. Then when it gets an official release, suddenly a faction of fans start asserting there were better options (even in lesser sound quality). I do agree with your assessment that had there been viable studio outtakes (or even rehearsals), Paris never would have been given an official release.
     
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  23. pool_of_tears

    pool_of_tears Searching For Simplicity

    Location:
    Midwest
    I know Page is a perfectionist, but how about a release to blow the minds of fans and that Garden tapes bloke:

    A set containing all three nights in their entirety...no cuts, no edits, no fixes...start each show with the sound of the tape starting (a la Doors Bright Midnight releases). No need to include the 1976 album soundtrack, as it's not hard to find. Plus, the hardcore fans already have that :)
     
  24. Gersh

    Gersh Forum Resident

    Well, I hope not but the recording was subject to extensive audio engineering according to Wikipedia and IMO that accounted for the full sound when Page plays extended single notes as compared say to some parts of TSRTS.
     
  25. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    Check out this analysis; it pretty much sums up what was done to the HTWWW tapes. It is much more reliable than Wikipedia.

    The Garden Tapes »
     
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