Elton John and Vinyl fan? Please read...and answer question?

Hey guys...and a few gals! So, one of the most fun things for me is to put on a new copy of something on vinyl that I am very, very familiar with and then my jaw dropping when I hear a huge jump in quality. At 55, that doesn't happen much anymore. Like a lot of you, I am one of those morons that will buy 20 copies of something until I find the best one (talking about vinyl only, though I am certainly aware of most CD's of classic artists because I did this with CD's to until I went back to vinyl exclusively a few years ago). I have read on here that compilations (greatest hits) albums on any format are generally not the way to hear the best possible mastering for a song, due to the way comps are mastered (Steve even talked about that way back when and it makes total sense). Occasionally, I'll put on a comp that I would swear used first gen masters to create it, and sometimes the singles will sound even better than the album the song(s) are from, but that is very, very rare.

So, I was at my local vinyl place and they had a common copy of Elton John's Greatest Hits Vol II on the absolutely, normally horribly pressed, MCA blue sky cloud label and mastering this is just terrible. I disdain almost anything put out with that label on it. Olivia Newton-John, Steely Dan (Gaucho...I still don't have a quiet copy), whatever...doesn't matter. MCA was a struggling label then, and I'm convinced then label chief Irving Azoff instructed his manufacturing guru to seek out the worst, cheapest, crappy vinyl they could find to press their records on. And the older rainbow domestics, as most of you know, weren't much better, if at all. The odds of getting any compilation album on MCA, on the sky blue label, that sounds decent is going to be pretty long. And I have never, ever purchased a domestic MCA Elton John album that has sounded good. Either the mastering is bad (obvious that duplicating masters were way down the food chain), the vinyl is snap crackle pop, or both. And of Olivia Newton-John and Elton John albums, the only way I finally acquired good copies was to buy Japanese imports, with the exception of Yellow Brick Road, which I paid crazy money for a couple years ago to get a copy on MFSL.

So...explain this one guys. I was in my local vinyl store and they had a cherry looking MCA blue sky label Elton John Hits II, which I don't have an import of, on vinyl for $11, which is on the high end there for a very pedestrian album like this. I have had numerous copies on the tan MCA, blue sky and whatever iteration it has come out on. All of them pure crap. Mastering is bad (expected...it is clear to me that MCA didn't have decent masters after hearing his catalogue on Japanese issued copies) and the vinyl is bad to terrible. Just for giggles, I picked this up because it just looked so darn nice. Wow. Anyone that is a fan HAS to find a copy with this mastering. I know all his hit songs as well as anyone, and I have purchased numerous copies of Honky Chateau through Rock of the Westies, always trying to get the very best. I know his material. You haven't heard the hits the way it was recorded until you hear this thing. How is that possible on a compilation album? You would think this was one of those "White Hot Stampers" for $600 that Tom sells. And you know what? If this is what you get, I get it now. I was listening to Lucy in the Sky, not one of my favorites from Sir Elton, and wow. I sure love it now! I noticed stuff I never noticed before, and the bells at the end...oh my! Every single song just jumps out at you and has imaging that is amazing. Crystal clear. The mastering is gorgeous. I'm not naive enough to think MCA got their hands on THE masters, cut out the hits, reassembled them, and then pressed the vinyl. But it sure sounds like they did. Can someone tell me how they could, from a technical standpoint, pull this off? This was long before digital, so they couldn't have done any computer magic yet. This is not some recent reissue, it's from 1976. And I have what I thought was a pretty decent comp in vinyl, the fairly recently issued The Very Best Of on vinyl, a two record set that was fine until I heard this thing.

For those that want to play, and get your very own copy (no way this one is ever leaving until my fingers are stiff), here is the mastering info I'll give you all for free, unlike Tom at Better Records, who would want $600 for it (perhaps he'll forward a check)?

Side 1: MCA 1334-GIC G1
Side 2: MCA 1335 G1B a few inches away there is a etching that says G2, the two is barely readable.

And the vinyl is DEAD quiet, so talk about luck all the way around. How in the world did they pull this off? This is the one, and only, MCA domestic blue sky slab of vinyl (and I own a lot) that has ever sounded good to me, except for Barry Gibb's solo album I have from the same time period (wish it was a better album...lol)! Not one of the singles on this album sound as good as any of the albums they come from! I wouldn't believe it either if I read this...I understand! Just go find a copy and tell me you don't agree. As Monk says, you'll tank me later. And you'll have a big grin on you face. I wonder how many copies of this exist, with that mastering? Hope this helps out any Elton John fans; I'm glad I could finally contribute something...I have learned so much from generous folks around here. I just got, finally, an amazing mastering of Supertramp's Even in the Quietest Moments after hunting for years. Never heard one I thought was as good as it should be, not even the A&M Audiophile version, until someone recently and kindly sold me a copy they swore was amazing. And it is! So, any thoughts on this?

 

Sounds absolutely great! I'm very happy for you, because I love finding hot stamper pressings, myself. My Canadian copy is very blah.
Do you think you could post a pic of this MCA cherry rainbow label? I'm not sure what it may look like.

 

It's actually a rainbow blue sky label and yes, I'll do that later if I can figure out how. A lot of people complain it's hard to post photos but I'll give it a try. All my copies, probably ten, sound like the Canadian you describe. I was just listening to side 2 again (I've played the whole album four times in a short amount of time) and I can't get over how the Rock of the Westies cuts even sound....I have a fantastic sounding copy of that album but Island Girl and Grow Some Funk are amazing. I just wish there were some stronger cuts on this album....Volume 1 is so much better but I have a great import of that one.

 

It's funny you mention those two side 2 tracks; after your post yesterday evening, I took out GH Vol.2 and Rock of the Westies to compare those two songs! The ROTW cuts were much superior...much!
So I would certainly be happy to get that GH Vol.2! Good luck with a picture!

 

As a rule, UK DJM pressings are superior to US MCA pressings. However with regard to GH2 specifically, I don't know that this is true. But I wouldn't be surprised at all if it holds true for this LP as well - even a good US pressing.

 

I don't have a single MCA EJ album that sounds very good, so I totally agree with you. All my good pressings are imported DJM, just like you said. That is why I'm so curious why this pedestrian pressing is not only very well mastered (every single song sounds better than those same songs on any DJM albums containing those same songs) but the vinyl is even flawless and dead quiet, which you never saw with those sky blue later 80's pressings. Quite baffling. I didn't even know it was technically possible to use what sounds like first generation tapes for a vinyl compilation album. Would sure love to know how this was pulled off. Sounds like you are a big fan as well. If so, try and track one down using the matrix info I gave. Don't bother trying any others. I have bought this album numerous times and all of them varied from bad to terrible.

 

Three letters ....DJM

 

Yup! Except for this one. And only that mastering/matrix. Wonder if they assembled the tracks at DJM and flew the master to the states? It is definitely much better, and different, from all the others I have heard.

 

Lucky you. I have always wondered why Elton John's whole catalog hasn't been remastered on 180g . Only his 1st album and Yellow Brick Road. I have stopped trying to find mint copies of madman, etc due to not finding a great copy yet.

I have also been trying to find a mint even in the quiets moments - Supertramp as well, no luck yet.

 

Type in Supertramp in the search box. I gave someone the matrix numbers about two months ago. If you can't find it I'll be happy to go look at them again. The trick will be getting both sides to match. I am sure Better Records must be using this copy when they have a Hot Stamper for $400. This copy is startling better than at least ten or more other copies I have bought over the years. The only issue is that the vinyl is very noisy. I was really disappointed that a forum member actually sold it, but he was right: the mastering is amazing and that was what he was "selling", so I gave him a pass. The imaging is far superior to other copies. I know this album very, very well (like the Elton John G2 album). It was likely a first issue. I have the audiophile A&M copy from Canada and it isn't really any better imo to the domestics, just a bit better vinyl quality.

 

I've just started collecting classic Elton on vinyl. Are the US MCA pressings truly that much worse than UK DJM pressings?

 

Yes ! You would not believe the quality difference between the two . If you get a chance A/B a US copy against a UK DJM copy. It is not even close !

 

uk djm's can be sourced cheaply too, the early albums are on extremely heavy UK PYE pressed vinyl, from late 1971 on slightly lighter uk pye pressings which glow red when held up to a light source, much lighter vinyl from 1974 but still glow red

 

Interesting! I'll need to add some of those to my collection down the line. I'm in the US; I wonder how much more they would be than US pressings.

 

Fortunately they made a lot of them as he was huge in the `70s, however the quality of the vinyl used by DJM was sometimes noisy, unfortunately. You can probably find good copies on-line for under $40.00.

 

He is absolutely right. Don't waste your time with any domestic MCA vinyl. I am just amazed artists would work so hard on making the best music they were capable of and then allowed product as bad as MCA vinyl to represent their work. Shoddy mastering using inferior masters, and very poor quality vinyl. That greatest hits album this post started out about was a complete fluke!

Go on ebay and there are some dealers that specialize in Japanese vinyl, and DJM stuff is there too. It is very likely you can get it all from one supplier to save on shipping. Get your favorite Elton vinyl in one shot. Also, the same goes for Olivia Newton John if you are a fan. Both those artists were with MCA during their heyday and their albums were very poorly served by MCA. That is how I finally obtained truly sensational copies of both artists. You will thank us later! Bill is right...it isn't even close.

 

That is true. We loved our Elton so you might get a couple that are a bit worn, but over all I have found the Japanese importers are pretty fair in grading. It did take a few tries to get a decent Yellow Brick Road, and I still ended up paying stupid stupid money for a beautiful MFSL pressing that is dead quiet. I also highly recommend the Speakers Corner GYBR as do others here, if you don't want to spend $150 on an MFSL copy.

 

Thanks! One of the reasons I've picked up MCA pressings is the fact I found great condition copies (often NM) on Discogs for cheap. If I seek DJM pressings, the shipping costs might crush my budget. The suggestion to order several albums at once from the same dealer is a great one. At least in terms of cutting down shipping costs.

 

u are welcome to pm me, I have some Eltons yet to list, when i do list them I can give you a heads up as you say combined postage is a good way to make it more cost effective for intl shipping

 

Elton did not really take off in the UK until around 1972/3 but UK DJM's are still plentiful as people caught up with his back cat then, you can get them for more like 20 dollars but thats excluding intl post so combining is the way to go if u can.

 

Dusted off my gbybr on mca. I believe its a first US pressing. I forgot how good it sounded. A lil over produced and a few throw away tracks, but still a great lp.

 

My GH II MCA rainbow blue label sounds excellent and is a quiet pressing. It came with a clear plastic insert.

Side one MCA-1334 W-13
Side two MCA 1335W7

 

I think that is the one I have. I got it a few months ago, it was sealed and I think I paid $10 for it. I have had a few copies of this. All were bad. However, most records with the blue sky label are exceptionally badly pressed, worse than any other label imo. I am very familiar with how Elton's songs sound. Here was something I actually started a thread on, but got very little traction. Every single song on this particular pressing sound better than those songs on any other album. I have pretty much his entire catalogue on vinyl, many in numerous versions as I always try to get the best pressings. I am really curious on how, on a comp album, that is even remotely possible? I thought I read Steve saying they almost always never use the masters because of the way comp albums have to be assembled. There is no doubt that the actual masters were used for this pressing, which is even more impressive as it's a domestic US pressing. The sound is stunning; it's one of the best sounding vinyl albums I now own (and I have a huge collection). I'm really glad to read someone else got a copy of this and feels the sound is excellent as well. I know of no better way to hear the hits on this album. I do have an import of this GH1, the MFSL of GYBR, etc, so I do have everything in as good a pressing as I can find. Anyway, talk about an abberation!

 

Thanks for your info and insight.
Been trying forever to get all my Elton John albums back in my collection for the last two years since I have been re-collecting vinyl.
I have been reading from a number of folks regarding the DJM vs MCA differences.
I managed to get S/T on the Classic Reissue (not Classic Records) label and OMG for a 24/96 transfer I cannot begin to tell you how amazing the sound is. Only drawback is the titles on the inside gatefold are white instead of pink.
Managed to get Speakers Corner of Yellow Brick Road and once again....to absolutely die for. I may get a MFSL down the road as Speakers is missing the twofold and artwork.
I got an original sealed UNI pressing of 11-17-70 and the sound and vinyl quality is unbelievable. Haven't heard a DJM but I would be curious.
I FINALLY got a virtual spot on NM if not Mint UNI of Madman. Completely satisfied.
As I write this I am awaiting an original UNI of Tumbleweed sealed with the UNI logo on the lower left of the cover. That should be here today so hopefully that will turn out well for me.
I got Honky Chateau on UNI from an old fella who worked in the music business so his copy was just absolutely IMMACULATE. I would actually have to say that Honky on UNI has got to be one of the best sounding EJ albums....even up there Speakers Brick Road.
So, I am not sure as I have never tested s/t to Honky on DJM and to be very honest it would take a ton of convincing because these old UNI's are insane.
Having said that everything from Dont Shoot Me to Single Man I bought sealed brand new on MCA.
DSM - Terrible. ..terrible sound terrible surface noise
Caribou - Not too too bad...but I am sure a DJM would be better.
GH 1 - 1980 reissue. Crap...but it had the inner sleeve so I wasn't too upset but I miss the front cover logo on the label.
Captain Fantastic- Bought from the same guy who had Honky. Amazing quality...quiet...just as I remember. No complaints. ..but a DJM would be fun to compare.
Wesites - Found a Cdn copy sealed and although the vinyl is somewhat noisy it's ok...just need quieter vinyl.
Here There- Sealed but the vinyl quality is just terrible.
Blue Moves - I actually went through...3 can you believe... sealed copies. The sound is awesome but again the vinyl just horrid.
GH V 2- Original 77 sealed on the brown/beige MCA . Brutal!
A Single Man - Same as above.
I may go for the new Burberry box set next month as it's my 50th b-day and well...what the hell. I listen to these, Genesis, Floyd and Supertramp so much it's good to have back up copies.
Plus with the box I am so curious as the vinyl sounds and Robert Ludwig's mastering turned out. Huge price but I am a big Elton fan.
As far as the Dont Shoot Me to Single Man area of MCA I mentioned it's either DJM UK/German or Japanese pressings I am going for to replace.
Why can't they just get it right like the Beatles Mono, or the new Joe Jackson or Floyd reissues??
My Elton John issues would be solved...geez!!

 

Darrin, I agree about Honky Chateau on UNI. Sonics are off the charts on that one.