File format

Evanescence: Origin - track 3 Imaginary
I just noticed this and have no explanation of why.
All other CDs I have are in stereo sound and sound great.

 

Updated equipment profile, maybe that might tell some more information on this?

Is it possible that my cd player doesn't support the file/recorded format of this track?
Because DVD players support mono playback and players with radio together play it fine, when this is a stand alone CD player I use don't?

 

Where did you buy the CD? Is it possible it's counterfeit/fake?

This is a discussion about the CD even though it says LP:

Origin LP Discussion Thread | EvThreads »

 

Amazon in 2003, why would a counterfeit CD have a different file/recording format,
or sound different, if it's a copy it would be the same recording.

Why assume anything fake, what makes you think that?

 

What makes me think that? Reading that forum thread! It seems to be fairly rare and known to be faked. It was just a thought - don't get too bent out of shape!

Did you burn the MP3 files to a CDR and play them? Does the CDR sound okay or same result as the original CD and the WAV files burned to CDR?

 

Actually no, that's good idea, I will try that.

 

Original disc- total album time: 45:25
CDR (Wav)total album time: 45:25
CDR(MP3)- total album time: 45:44

Definitely some difference's occurring based on the times above.

Tack 3 MP3 sounds same as CDR (Wav), clear, stereo, balanced sound, no stopping of playback.
However, I noticed track 1 on Original and Wav discs go immediately into track 2 instantly and MP3 has 3 seconds of silence at the end of track 1 then track 2 starts.
I would have to compare the whole 3 version total albums but that would take some time.
The original disc's track 3 may not be mono sound perhaps, but it sounds different then the CDR copies, adding 20 seconds to the album is a lot I would say,
considering MP3 is supposed to be condensing the playback?

 

Who in the world is gonna counterfeit an Evanescence album? Lol not a knock on them just seems like something that would never happen. I don't think they were popular enough to stop their legitimate CDs from ending up in cutout bins let alone have fakes flooding the market.


Like I said before, if we got to look at the rip logs (eac, xld, DBPA, whatever other program was used to rip the disc) this is something that would never have been a mystery and we'd figure out what was happening in about half a second. Instead we've got 2 pages of conjecture based on being presented with absolutely minimal information.

If the disc was ripped using a program that is not known to be capable of accurately ripping discs without errors in the first place, then that's the first thing that should be addressed. There are way too many variables here to say what could have happened and right at the first step if we're introducing variables of our own, all bets are off. We need to start with an accurate EAC (or similar) rip, and then we can go from there.

 

The disc with errors is not a CDR ripped disc it is factory pressed. The WAV file ripped CDR gives the most accurate copy of the real original disc but without the track 3 error.

 

Quick Google says this is a rare and oft-bootlegged disc with an original run of 2500 copies.

 

Well, was looking for assistance on the track not playing right in my cd player, wasn't looking to start a bootleg or non-bootleg debate.
It's ok though, thanks for the responses.

 

Hmmm. okay I stand very corrected! I had no idea there was this kind of demand around one of their recordings. It's very possible that a counterfeit made its way into amazons distribution system, especially if it was from another seller. Has happened to me in the past on more than one occasion. (Linkin Park Hybrid Theory EP and some import soundtracks come to mind)

I would rip the original and post the log so we can see exactly what (if any) errors are present, and where. It will also help identify the disc. Posting pictures and sharing photos of the matrix with other collectors can help verify your disc as legitimate or counterfeit. It's probably not worth ripping a counterfeit disc as you'd have no way of verifying errors that crept into the illegitimate product, and it's more than likely not digitally identical to the original disc it was copied from - same can be said for your CD-R copy. If you'd like I can try to post an example of a log that shows errors.

 

Yes, could you post a log that shows errors, and tell me how to do the log info for my
disc.

 

Or, you don't know what better sound quality is, and what the mp3 codec is doing to the sound.

 

All CDs are formatted to stereo. If you have a mono track on a CD, it is still split into two channels so that the player can read it. This means you have the same mono track on both sides. Other than that, the quality of the mono is dependant entirely on what the mastering engineer does.

If you listen to a mono track on a CD, and you hear wavering between the channels, or uneven channels, it means that the tape was transferred with a stereo head stack, and the engineer didn't correct the phasing.

 

Then how do we find out the file/recording format is?

 

Made a copy of track 3 on MP3 format, mono sound.
Sound is a lot more on right speaker, fading in then out sound on the left, some distortion, but does not stop playback.
This resembles the original discs playback sound exactly.
Also, original factory pressed disc reads by cd players as Origan not Origin as the title.

Well, this clears it up for me, except for why playback stops on Original disc in this player only (Gemini CDMP- 1500).
Thanks for the help.

 

here is an example of the EAC log file from a CD I ripped the other day, Donovan's Greatest Hits (the 1987 pressing with the 1968 re-recordings)

The .log file is spit out by all proper CD ripping applications (which I'm aware of) into the same directory as your audio files and .cue sheet so it should already be there. Again, if you're not already using an accurate CD ripping application, setting one up would be imperative. EAC is my preference and is generally recommended/considered to be the best.

That's the whole log. lets point out a few key parts.

Right at the beginning of the rip, we are presented with this gem:

The very first track could not be ripped error-free. In this case it was due to a scratch near the center of the disc. Every other track presented "Accurately ripped (confidence 18)" which means, essentially, that my extraction of the data on my disc was 100% identical to the extraction 18 other people have created from this disc. You can reasonably presume that the rip was accurate and error free.

You'll note that the complementary CTDB report included at the bottom of the log also presented this error.

In this case we can see the error was pretty severe because CTDB couldn't even recognize the track. In most cases, it will give you a detailed readout of how many samples were erroneous, and where the errors were located within the track. It will also give you an option to correct those errors flawlessly.

You'll also note that continuing after that, I made a few more attempts to read that track using different read methods. It was a little tricky, usually only resulting in errors, but in the end I finally managed to get my drive to make a clean read of the first track if I got it to spin up first and then start extracting the audio. If the drive was up to speed before the scratch at 17s came in, it would read right through it. Audio properly extracted, mission accomplished. There is no room for error or reason to doubt the integrity of this rip.


The rip log for your Evanescence disc will definitely help shine a light on whats going on with your rips. It can't be formatted improperly, as all audio CDs adhere to the Red book standard as proposed in the late 70's/early 80's - 2 channels of 16 bit audio at a sampling rate of 44.1kHz. I don't think its possible to create a disc that didn't adhere to that, and if you did - I don't think any optical drive would recognize it or know what to do with it. If you are hearing strange things, either it is inherent to the source material recorded on your disc or something in your playback/ripping process is introducing errors. The logs will help us determine what, if anything, is going on.

 

You really can't. But, you can get a pretty good idea by ripping the CD into your computer and opening it up in audio software that allows you to see it in spectral mode.

Here is a screenshot of an original file ripped from a CD. The song is "Adia" by Sarah McLachlan from her "Surfacing" CD:



Here is a screen shot of a file. This one just happens to be a 320 kbps mp3. The LAME encoder did a pretty good job of preserving most of the integrity of the file, but notice how the quiet areas of the song are less full, and a bit spiky. That's the codec discarding audio it doesn't think you can hear. maybe you can, maybe you can't. I know I can:



Now, here's a screenshot of the same file as 192 kbps mp3. Notice how the file is basically cut off at 16,000 cycles, with only shreds of sound left. Well, you probably can't really hear much past 17 kHz as an adult, but you certainly hear overtones that affect what you do hear. This file doesn't sound very good compared to the original.

 

Here's what Amazon does, or used to do: If you order a CD of a certain title that they don't sell a lot of, or don't physically have in stock, they will run off a CD-R of it and sell you that. Who knows what the source is. It's "on demand".

 

Will get EAC rip log up soon, need some time.

Amazon did CD-R copies back in 2003? I just noticed that recently?

 

If they don't physically have it in stock, how can they run off a CD-R of it?

 

Not sure about that, but I don't think this disc is CDR anyways by amazon?
Unless they put an official matrix/runout and inserts with lyrics.

 

The files are stored somewhere?

 

Here is the log:


Exact Audio Copy V1.1 from 23. June 2015

EAC extraction logfile from 28. August 2016, 14:44

- / -

Used drive : HL-DT-STDVDRAM GE24NU40 Adapter: 1 ID: 1

Read mode : Burst

Read offset correction : 0
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations : Yes
Used interface : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling : Not detected, thus appended to previous track

Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
Sample format : 44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo


TOC of the extracted CD

Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
---------------------------------------------------------
1 | 0:00.00 | 0:35.17 | 0 | 2641
2 | 0:35.17 | 3:55.73 | 2642 | 20339
3 | 4:31.15 | 3:28.62 | 20340 | 36001
4 | 8:00.02 | 4:19.57 | 36002 | 55483
5 | 12:19.59 | 3:46.16 | 55484 | 72449
6 | 16:06.00 | 5:10.28 | 72450 | 95727
7 | 21:16.28 | 4:09.69 | 95728 | 114471
8 | 25:26.22 | 5:18.00 | 114472 | 138321
9 | 30:44.22 | 3:44.55 | 138322 | 155176
10 | 34:29.02 | 3:31.64 | 155177 | 171065
11 | 38:00.66 | 7:22.23 | 171066 | 204238


Track 1

Filename C:\Users\David\Desktop\ICE-T CD\Origin CD\01 Track01.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Extraction speed 2.9 X
Copy CRC 0100FAA0
Copy OK

Track 2

Filename C:\Users\David\Desktop\ICE-T CD\Origin CD\02 Track02.wav

Timing problem 0:02:19
Timing problem 0:02:23
Timing problem 0:02:28

Peak level 100.0 %
Extraction speed 5.2 X
Copy CRC DD030AE1
Copy finished

Track 3

Filename C:\Users\David\Desktop\ICE-T CD\Origin CD\03 Track03.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Extraction speed 18.0 X
Copy CRC 5C77958C
Copy OK

Track 4

Filename C:\Users\David\Desktop\ICE-T CD\Origin CD\04 Track04.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Extraction speed 19.7 X
Copy CRC 205B8531
Copy OK

Track 5

Filename C:\Users\David\Desktop\ICE-T CD\Origin CD\05 Track05.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Extraction speed 21.3 X
Copy CRC E8BE191E
Copy OK

Track 6

Filename C:\Users\David\Desktop\ICE-T CD\Origin CD\06 Track06.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Extraction speed 23.0 X
Copy CRC 2B1EA167
Copy OK

Track 7

Filename C:\Users\David\Desktop\ICE-T CD\Origin CD\07 Track07.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Extraction speed 24.5 X
Copy CRC 8FCD052F
Copy OK

Track 8

Filename C:\Users\David\Desktop\ICE-T CD\Origin CD\08 Track08.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Extraction speed 26.1 X
Copy CRC 90CE7679
Copy OK

Track 9

Filename C:\Users\David\Desktop\ICE-T CD\Origin CD\09 Track09.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Extraction speed 27.5 X
Copy CRC 2118C577
Copy OK

Track 10

Filename C:\Users\David\Desktop\ICE-T CD\Origin CD\10 Track10.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Extraction speed 28.4 X
Copy CRC B6B235AB
Copy OK

Track 11

Filename C:\Users\David\Desktop\ICE-T CD\Origin CD\11 Track11.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Extraction speed 30.0 X
Copy CRC 19A2EE59
Copy OK

No errors occurred

End of status report

---- CUETools DB Plugin V2.1.6

[CTDB TOCID: yxNCeT0XEq4pQfHLRmW559XXgNk-] found
Submit result: insufficient quality
Track | CTDB Status
1 | (3/3) Accurately ripped
2 | (3/3) Accurately ripped
3 | (1/3) Differs in 337 samples @02:03:04-02:03:05, or (1/3) differs in 435 samples @02:03:04-02:03:05
4 | (3/3) Accurately ripped
5 | (3/3) Accurately ripped
6 | (3/3) Accurately ripped
7 | (3/3) Accurately ripped
8 | (3/3) Accurately ripped
9 | (3/3) Accurately ripped
10 | (3/3) Accurately ripped
11 | (3/3) Accurately ripped
If you are sure that your rip contains errors, you can use CUETools to repair it.

(Definitely showing a difference for track 3, I have an idea what it shows but if someone could explain better?)