Petition launched to reintroduce Technics turntables (Update: The SL-1200 is Back!)*

I have no jiggle on my VTA ring, locked or unlocked, and I can easily adjust VTA on the fly if I am just careful not to knock around the tonearm accidentally.

I also leave the tonearm up and lock in the arm (it kinda clicks into place over it, it does push the arm down a bit). My GAE is in the 300s and I honestly have had my cue lever up when locking the 1200m3D for over 15 years with no issues.

I also have no issues with the GAE doing this. I have had the GAE since June and have been locking the arm with cue up fairly regularly. I had no idea it wasn't the "right method" but you can be sure that such small force is not mangling my tonearm/messing up alignment or bending it in any way. The tonearm will naturally rest in the armrest with cue up, it maybe gets moved down around 1mm when you smoothly engage the armlock.

I have zero play or wiggle on the VTA adjuster, on the fly or otherwise. Hope you get to the bottom of this!

PS: for those of you skimming this thread, I think it gives off the impression that the GAE is kind of finicky. My experience with this table couldn't be further from that. This is my easiest, most trouble free table I've ever operated. I've owned Rega, VPI and nothing is as smooth as the GAE in terms of pure operation.

 

On my MK5, with the tonearm up, the arm does move a bit to one side or the other when I turn the ring. However, it's not enough for it to leave the groove when I make on-the-fly adjustments.

 

Mine does the same but i have never done it on the fly, if I remember correctly my table was built in 2007

 

Excuse the dust, my Ariston has had the Technics on a shelf. Note: this is my Sl-1700. Same exact arm as the 1200 (which my daughter's fiance got gifted. I like this semi-auto ver. better) Smooth. No clicking. Only up and down movement. Any jiggling is my shaky cam or what might be expected from an arm floating and being jostled. Looking back at yours, your arm is loose. That's all I can say.

 

I'll bet I'm not the only 1200 owner that's not going to buy the new GAE or the standard model either.

 

Just to add to the discussion, my 20 year old 1210 was overhauled at KAB last year and I definitely have some wiggle when I turn the VTA ring, enough that I would never think to try it while playing a record. Also, I have often mounted a cart with screws from below because the slots hold the nuts in place when you tighten the screws. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Mainly because I don't have a spare $4000 lying around.

 

I won't because I'm sure I wouldn't get a $3500 improvement in sound quality over my mint 2001 SL1200 mk2.

 

If the VTA adjuster wiggles, or if one needs a record on the platter when playing, are two important questions in vinyl playback.

 

I agree. I almost never play with the VTA, so it if wiggles the entire arm, it's shouldn't affect your playback in reality. Even SH, I believe, is of the set and forget school on VTA. I know he said he wouldn't adjust it for each album. The GAE looks like a great table, and I'm certain it is, but I personally think that "wiggle" is a bit odd for a $4k table. AND the fact if you're shifting the ENTIRE POSITION of the arm, you might as well throw that fancy protractor out the window. I'd be more worried about that than the damn VTA.

Maybe the boutique arm of Panasonic putting out a table didn't have the same resources that Technics at the height of its powers, nor the knowledge that previously came from refining turntables over a decades of production. There's a reason these tables have lasted 40 years with virtually no maintenance - they were engineered to perfection. It's not the end of the world if the arm wiggles when adjusting the VTA, no, but it certainly says something about the level of accomplishment of the old engineers at Panasonic and how the end-of-the-line SL-1200 was their ultimate achievement out of that evolution (armless professional models aside). Even that video put out by Technics admits they had to go back to old retired employees to work out the analogue/physical side of things, because that skill had been lost to the company.

If I owned a GAE, I would press Technics about this aspect of the new arm and point out how the arm formerly worked and that maybe they have a few minor bugs to iron out, yet.

Oh, yes, I have adjusted VTA on the fly just for fun. Now that I got down the 1700 I should do a video of that for fun. When you do that, it makes you a believer that VTA is overrated. You might here a minor roll off of highs, but I never heard it pump up the bass or open up the sound that much. I'm certain that's the reason Roy Gandy doesn't even bother putting that option on Regas. Get it in the ballpark within a couple of degrees and it doesn't really matter much. I'm not the kind to send my table off to some dealer to tweak it for me. I tear the effing things apart to figure out what makes them tick. That's why these things aren't fairy dust and magic to me, they're machines that run best one way and you should understand which way that is. And if back2vinyl thinks he's found a flaw, he should damn well let Technics know about it. I'll bet you a good dollar if he does that, future models of this table don't wiggle.

 

Back to the nuts/bolts I recommended ! Like Arem I mount with nuts above and bolts (rather than screws) pointing downwards. These are easily adjusted with the supplied allen key. The nuts lock in the adjustment slots (perfect fit in my Rega arm).

SRM/TECH PRO CARTRIDGE MOUNTING KIT »

 

I'm not convinced there isn't a slight movement of the arm here though less than in Backtovinyl's case. I think we will have to assume that a varying degree of movement is within factory tolerance levels.

 

What I meant was that these discussions about the GAE are just silly. The silliest is of course about this wiggle, but much comes close.
There are of course reasons why, three reasons to be more clear.

 

Did you watch the video Technics did? They went back to a specialist company full of old Technics designers to get the arm right. Knowledge was there and they put large resources in. Technics was always a tiny part of Panasonic.

 

That video is incredible and thanks a million for posting it - I can't see the slightest sign of jiggle and it looks solid as a rock to me. I wouldn't have believed the contrast between your video and mine if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. I still don't feel it matters much because I'm never going to want adjust VTA on the fly and the manual says you're not supposed to anyway. I also don't think it alters arm geometry or alignment because it doesn't effect overhang or the arm's effective length or anything else of importance as far as I can see. So I don't class it as a defect. However, I'd still prefer the jiggle wasn't there, just from a kind of aesthetic point of view. What I'd really like to do is strip the arm down and see where it's occurring and whether there's something that could be tightened up. But I daren't touch anything until I hear from Technics about the other matter (the arm tube not being straight) in case they ask me to send it back.

 

That's extremely kind of you Jimi but I'm just blundering around in the dark, often bumping into people and annoying them, and surely learning far more than you along the way!

 

I agree, it is very difficult to photograph the tonearm without distortion. I think the part of the arm to focus on is the centre section, between the two bends, because if my guess is correct, then the arm is very slightly rotated in its socket and it's that centre section that slopes down as a result. I think you can get a slightly better view of the centre section of the tonearm relative to the record surface if you look from the left-hand side of the turntable - that's where I took my pictures from. A small bubble level placed on top of the arm makes life a lot easier but it's not so easy to find one that's just the right size.

But from that picture, your arm looks fine, so maybe it is just mine. Alternatively, maybe they vary, but I think that's unlikely because if you look at the back of the arm it's held in its socket by two screws and the screw holes must surely be in the same place on all arms.

 

AArchie, I'll get back to you on this armrest thing if I may - I need to take some measurements.

 

I'd be sorry if anyone was put off buying the new model by the discussion going on here. The vast majority of it is just owners chatting amiably about the quirks of their excellent Technics turntables - and show me a turntable from any manufacturer that doesn't have quirks! I think there is an issue about the tonearm on my turntable being out of true and, as a result, making the setup instructions wrong, but I'm hoping Technics will provide an answer on that, and it may be only mine, and in any case it's only a case of making an allowance for it when doing the setup. Although I was a bit disappointed by that at first, I've long since moved on and I'm confident that I'm going to be very happy indeed with this machine.

 

I'm glad you contacted Technics and I'm sure they will come back to you with a solution. Feel free to send them the vid I made for you. Yes, don't take a damn thing apart! The arm moves up and down on threaded copper barrels in there. It's a very fine thread, too. Something you don't want to mess with unless it's a truly dire situation (mine were seized up on another table, the one in the video is factory untouched) or your table is 30 years old without a warranty! It could be a very simple thing which Technics will realize there's a fix for. I doubt it's the threads (a good thing) the clicking sound to me says as you turn the arm there are two surfaces which should be firmly together are separating and then bumping again creating the click. That should be a sure sign of something loose. Look at some exploded schematics of the 1200 arm on the web. Maybe you can diagnose it youself. I hope it works out. I thought it looked like th movement altered the arm geometry to me, but you can see it better than we could. Good luck! Sorry for all the pointing and questioning. We were all digging in the trenches here to find out what the hell was going on! Please let us know what kind of customer service you get from Panasonic!

 

This wiggle reminded me of play in the bearings, so is there any if you grab and shake the tonearm?
And for the insides watch this vid:

 

To be clear, I haven't contacted Technics about the jiggle - I only contacted them about the tonearm being out of true. I might well mention it if we get into a conversation, though. I have looked at some schematics and also watched the video that RPM very kindly posted but I think this is one of those cases where you just have to get your hands dirty if you want to find out what's going on. I did wonder if there wasn't enough grease in there but if that was the answer, yours would still move - it would just move very gently and smoothly instead of with the sudden flick and click that you get with mine. But since yours doesn't move at all, I don't think that can be the answer. I'm kind of stuck now, waiting for a reply from Technics, so if I do decide to look into this further, it could be a while before anything happens.

Edit: RPM, no, there's no free play in the arm assembly at all apart from that rotational free play we're talking about.

 

I just had a thought - you don't think it could be the antiskate that's making the difference, do you? Maybe there's no jiggle if you have a lot of antiskate applied because the antiskate pulls the arm outwards all the time. But people with little or no antiskate applied (for example, me) would get jiggle.

I can't check at the moment but it could be something to look at tomorrow.

 

Didn't mean that but good idea to check that too, with antiskate at zero vs 3.
Also does it wiggle at any height or only at zero height?

Edit:
Was talking about this type of play in my previous comment:

 

I have uncorroborated, yet plausible theory about the jiggle. It is based on the observation that older units tend to jiggle less than the new or recently serviced units. Here it goes:

The VTA mechanism is a thread, generously coated with viscous lubricant. New, recently applied lubricant is less viscous and parts with free play in them are free to move easily and jiggle when tickled. As the lubricant ages and becomes more viscous or even dries out, it sticks to the moving parts or even fixes them in place and makes them jiggle less or not at all.

Possible or not?