Upgrade-itis : When do you stop?

Easy, stop thinking.

Or start thinking about how it is that you have been so easily convinced to be unsatisfied with what you have to the point where you are now asking for a way out of this mess.

 

My system sounds great, I haven't upgraded since putting NOS Telefunken tubes in the phono section and NOS CBS Hytron tubes in the driver section of the power amp last year. It sounds marvelous!

But the initial reviews of the new iPhono2 phono preamp well...and at only $500...*itch*, *itch*...

 

someone already said, but you should try to get through more than *two months* with your gear before upgrading...

take time, buy good stuff that lasts. it's better to get off the upgrade merry-go-round for a while so you can actually listen to the music. I would generally say if your system is worth more than your collection, then you are doing something wrong and probably need to expand your musical taste too.

 

That is one of the benefits of tubes. When I replace old tubes it is on par with a refurbishment.

 

I have reached the point where I am relatively content with my setup. But the main reason (other than money) that I check upgraitis is because I am confident I have room issues, and I don't think it is sensible to chase a sound through upgrades when I would be trying to accommodate something that is too difficult to address right now.

That said, I have a queue of things that I will get one at a time when money permits (in order of importance):

1. Ortofon 2M Blue stylus replacement (I am four years on mine!)
2. Pro-Ject Speed Box
3. A couple pairs of quality interconnects (~$25/pair)
4. A throw rug
5. Polk RtiA9 floor standers to relegate my RtiA3s to the surrounds

Even though I have that queue, I find that all my spare money goes to crate digging used vinyl and CDs, so I can't seem to save for the queue... yet something keeps telling me that it is priority one.

 

Be careful, if she becomes the misses the tone of the discussion will change in the house.
Read the posts hear about wives and stereo's.
I'm soon to be 60 and I am thinking of selling the big house I am in and build me a 24 x 50 room or should it be called small auditorium and add a kitchen and bedrooms to it.
Put all your speakers on wheels and your amps on nice movable carts, I use a big roll around tool box lower section from Home Depot, it takes all the work out of changing things around.
I don't think I could ever be happy without my addiction and I refuse therapy.

 

How do you stop? Well that entirely depends on who you are, what you have and what you want. At some point however, your system will be quite capable and produce very high quality sound. When you get to this point upgrades are often esoteric in nature more so than equipment based. When the equipment becomes quite high in quality I like to step back from the system and try to forget about the equipment. Just listen to the music. Let the music take you somewhere, move you, put a smile on your face and pep in your step. Often the listening becomes so equipment critical that the listener begins hearing the electronics, the room, the source material and everything BUT the music. At this point you have lost the point of the musics reason for being. For personal re-calibration visit a local pub where some live music you enjoy is being played. If you listen critically to the equipment you will find it really is not that great sounding, the EQ is set crappy, the room sounds terrible, the crowd is noisy and getting in the way of the sounds being produced...yet somehow you greatly enjoy the music being played. After your re-calibration session go listen to your system again and try to find the enjoyment in the music rather than faults in the equipment. At this point you may find a grin growing on your face because you really do have a great sounding system already and now you can simply enjoy the music it plays.

 

When it comes to that, a dedicated space is the answer (or a dedicated wife), with maybe some kind of soundproofing on the wall closest to the significant other in question (or a new significant other ).

 

This is spot on, familiarity breeds contempt. My system always sounds best after I have been away from it for a few days. Also, having a second system can help scratch the itch for change.

 

I'm knocking on that 60 year door too. I don't think the GF and me will be tying the knot. At this point, I'm taking this relationship one day at a time. I've been through too many to count so I tread lightly. I suppose I had a woman obsession through the years like I have with audio and music. I couldn't make up my mind about them either.

I like your idea of the tool box audio rig. Do you use the drawer sections too or just put your things on top?

 

It is a never ending journey for many of us. When you think that you at your journey's end, this "disease" will rise and strike again.

 

You don't have a Fisher, do you? Tubes are great though, aren't they? Especially when you hit that synergy trifecta and everything starts blooming like you never dreamed.

When I first started to get serious with this hi fi stuff, I was basically looking for a certain type of sound with my system, and as soon as I found that sound in the right speakers (1963 Wharfedale W90's) and receiver (1964 Fisher 800C) and got the right caps in the speakers and the right tubes in the receiver, I was finally able to kick back and really start to enjoy my system for a while, which I've basically been doing the last year or so, although I spent the early part of that year nailing down my placement, which quite-honestly did nearly as much for the sound of my system as the caps and tubes did.

But now I've got the upgrade itch again. Time to upgrade my DAC. I already get great sound with my current one, but considering how much I spent on it, the thing is basically being out-classed by the rest of my gear at this point, certainly in terms of cost. I know I can improve things in a big way if I spend a good $400-$500 on a better DAC, but it's gotta be just the right one, as my current DAC just happens to suit my system really-well for how much I paid for it (That's why I put off upgrading it for so long... I've had it since 2011). In other words, I wanna' be sure that whatever DAC I buy is really gonna' suit a warm, smooth, uber-musical system like mine (I took the same approach with the tuhes and caps, essentially aiming for maximum synergy and musicality, and it worked out beautifully, and I had the same thing in mind when I bought my last DAC, so I figure I should stick with that idea... I already know the sound I want... Just a matter of finding the gear that gets me closest to it)..

If I can find just the right one, my system stands to see a major sonic improvement, since the DAC is definitely the weak link in my system, which is why I've got the upgrade itch so bad right now. I wish I already knew which one I was gonna' buy. I'm moving in a month, and it would be really nice to be able to spend the last month here enjoying the thing. Hey, who knows. Ahh, who am I kidding? I still don't have a clue which one I want. Maybe I can look real hard over the next few days and find a good used one or something.

 

I'd love to have a vintage Fisher tube amp or receiver! For a second system anyway to play around with.

I don't have a picture but I use the phono section (from preamp out direct to the power amp because the signal path is shorter and my power amp shown below has a level control) of a Hovland HP-100 preamp in my main system. The amp is a David Berning single-ended "Siegfried" model made for the 811-10 output tube or the 572-10 variant (10 watts/channel) which is what I use (richer sound to me). The picture shows the brown base NOS 6SN7s in the rear now replaced with a set of Hytron 6SN7s just like the ones in front of the brown bases shown. Better synergy! (somehow)

I use super-efficient Avantgarde Duo horn speakers in a really large listening room (so the speakers can really 'breathe'), and the sound is spectacular! Yes, the bloom, in fact the whole presentation (and especially the dynamics!) is like I never dreamed possible up to this point.

But ah, the intermittent urge to upgrade. The reason it's so enticing is because I've found over the years that one never knows what sonic benefits or improvements any upgrade might bring...until the upgrade is in the system and working and then you hear it. Then it's like "My God, I have never heard this recording sound quite like that -- the textures and subtle timbres in musical instruments you've not noticed before, dynamic shadings, etc. that add so much to the enjoyment of familiar recordings. It really is like the cliche of "another veil pulled away from hearing into the recording and venue".

Then of course you have to start pulling out all those familiar recordings to hear them again "anew", heh. But what fun!

 

Do it! It's fun, not crazy money and it will hold it's value if you don't want to keep it.

 

Well if I ever get a chance to pick up a decent one I just might do it! They're not real common nowadays though I suspect.

I already have a Marantz 2265B receiver (solid-state) in for repair and upgrades throughout that I'm looking forward to getting back and playing with. What a hobby.

 

I bought one on this forum back in the spring that has been simply delightful. It seems as though nice ones go for about $800 on ebay and a lot of them ship from CA. I firmly believe that getting it's equal in modern day tube gear will cost about $5,000. The Fisher is a bargain but expectations need to be moderate. It does better in a smaller room with efficient speakers and the phono stage is not great. Give it a nice DAC or a quality phono and it really sings.

 

The important to understand is that no system does everything. So whatever the one system doesn't do becomes a need to hear. The solution is to have more than one system where each one does something you want which is not present in the other system. Obviously there are logistical and money issues, but in many cases getting a second or third system and sticking with it is less expensive than endless fretting leading to constant gear changes in the main system.

 

I put things in the drawers, extra cables tools to tinker with a couple of meters ,tape, it's really handy.
Its about 5 foot long and maybe 38 inches high with the wheels, it's black so it looks pretty cool, wooden top with a rubber mat that came with it.
I do have stereo's around the house but this is very convenient.
I have Altec a7 vott 's on wheels along with some other monsters I built that helps a lot.
A furniture dolly and a two wheel dolly , I'm set for speaker moving.

 

There's no right way to enjoy this hobby, and some never stop upgrading. They have the funds and the time to do it and enjoy the elusive chase for "perfection".

Others may eventually get frustrated with the pursuit of "perfection" (you'll never achieve it) and for them, the once pleasant chase can become unpleasant, like being on a treadmill. They usually decide to stop throwing money at hardware at some point and only upgrade to replace something that has died.

In rarer cases, some get so tired of the pursuit that they actually scale back, simplify and "downgrade" their systems. It's not common, but I've met more than one audiophile who has done just that: they are not interested in upgrading at all. They do this in the full knowledge that the more expensive system sounds better than the modest one, but they don't care. For whatever reason, they derive more pleasure from the modest system.

And this hobby ought to be about your enjoyment and what you find pleasing. If it becomes a source of frustration, it's really time to step back and think about how you can make it fun again.

The only advice I would give you has already been given: don't rush into any new purchases unless something is definitely bothering you about your system. And never, ever upgrade just because someone on-line badmouths something you own. They do not have your ears, the rest of your system, nor are they listening to your music in your room. In short, they can have no idea how this system sounds to you, and that's the only thing that matters.

 

That's beautiful. I've just recently discovered the single ended scene. Can't wait to get my new amp in. Can we see a picture of those speakers?

 

Okay these I took early this morning to show the latest. This should probably all be on the "show your system" thread I suppose. From the side...



From the left, Immedia RPM 2 table and arm (from 1998) fitted with London Reference cartridge, the Berning power amp (from 1998), the Hovland HP-100 preamp (open top almost showing tubes, from 1999). Camera flash illuminated the speaker cables...



From about 10' back showing the Avantgarde Duo speakers (105 dB efficiency at one meter @one watt)...



Further back showing the listening couch in front, stairs up to the open 2nd level on left...



The view down (wide angle, so distance objects look farther away than they actually are) from the top level...

 

Whoa! Using the words Steve Martin once spoke, "What the Hell is that?

 

Can't help. I just upgraded my phono pre to a Manley Chinook.

 

Sweet-looking amp... And those Avant Gardes are insane... You've definitely been busy... From the back, the speakers have a kind of field-coil speaker look to them.

 

Yeah, aside from that quirky volume knob/on & off switch, the Fishers are seriously-awesome receivers. What I like most about them is that "breath of life" musicality they have. Combined with my main speakers, they have that certain kind of magic that brings classic rock, funk/soul, and blues recordings to life. Today I was listening to a really-good Temptations anthology I have, and songs like "Psychedelic Shack" and "Ball Of Confusion" (my two favorite Temptations songs) sound as close to perfect as I have ever heard, and the Fisher is a big part of that (I wish I could describe it better, but "perfect" pretty much covers it). If I had to pick, say, ten demo tracks to show off my system to a bunch of people somewhere, those two would be on the list for sure. With the right speakers, the Fisher has a three-dimensionality to it, especially on those old '60's and early '70's stereo tracks. That's one thing I love about tube hi fi. You can make those old songs sound so good, it's like the band is in front of you, playing at a comfortable, conservative volume level. And I mean for real. I could never get that sound with modern gear, not for that sort of music and not for the money I spent on the gear in my current setup (I wanted something that really brings that older stuff to life, and what better than a tube amp/receiver from back in the day?). The Fisher wasn't just good-sounding. It was also very-affordable, which is why I'm probably a little gun-shy about the idea of buying modern gear, tube or otherwise. And the Fisher models from the tube era have that signature sound that just works for that old music I love, and it works well. If I upgrade, it'll be to a Marantz 8/8b or maybe a Leak model.

Fishers apparently also have some major-league synergy with certain brands/eras of speakers.