How much credit does MUTT LANGE really deserve?

Not sure what you're asking. "Carribean Queen" was probably Billy Ocean's signature song. He sang the hell out of "Sad Songs" and had some other chart action. Used to have his Best Of or Greatest Hits on CD from Columbia House. Honestly don't recall ever thinking to look to see who his producer was from then. He sort of came out of nowhere to score those hits, but they have a sort of Arista stamp on the type of sound that Clive Davis wanted at the time. So, yeah, maybe Mutt Lange did something special but he could have also just has easily been following orders.

 

I see what you mean as Orr certainly had leads before this but "Drive" has Lange running through it's very blood. The synth textures and the background vocals all feel like Lange and no one else. No one could have sung that tune better than Ben Orr. He just destroyed it! He brought out every emotional undercurrent it had and milked it for all it was worth without being the least bit cheesy. How it wasn't nominated for a Grammy for "Vocal Performance by a Duo or Group, I'll never know. That tune was a perfect launching pad for Ben to do the solo thing.

Ed

 

He was working in collaboration with others on the Ocean tunes. They feel like that too, though his backgrounds are all over "When the Going Gets Tough". Honestly, though, Ocean's best work was that done with Barry Eastmond and others (like the tune you mentioned). The more R&B Ocean got, the better he got. Poppier stuff didn't work as well for my ears.

Ed

 

Hell yeah! We had a (controversial) thread that went out to like 20+ pages for "Corporate Rock." Foreigner was right there with Journey, Styx and Loverboy. Mike Stone would have manned the control room for Foreigner, and say, "Let's have Thomas Dolby add synth to 'Waiting For a Girl Like You."'

Bottom line is that the record companies knew at that time, an especially profitable period, that there were certain producers who could deliver the desired results. Mutt Lange was certain among them, but not the only one.

 

He didn't get one until "Drive" came out. 'Course, he might not have pursued one till then - I honestly don't know.

Ed

 

Three words: Roy Thomas Baker!

 

You might be forgetting the other big guy who produced The Cars' first couple of albums: Roy Thomas Baker! He had that signature big drum sound that he also added to Queen's 70s albums. As Mutt liked to layer tracks and use harmonizers on everything, Baker pinned the VU needles on everything! he had a raw sound, where Lange's sound was usually smooth.

If Lange didn't produce, it was in his songwriting. Lange co-wrote Ocean's hit "Loverboy", and wrote Loverboy's 1985 hit "Lovin' Every Minute Of It". Perhaps Loverboy emulated his sound, but Mutt's DNA is even in the music he writes. It's inescapable. Lange produced Bryan Adams' "Waking Up The Neighborhood", and co-wrote some of the songs. Now you'd think that with someone like Bryan Adams, Mutt's sound wouldn't have a chance. Nope! Listen to the album! One of the hit singles sound like classic Def Leppard!

 

Suddenly (Billy Ocean album) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia »


Keith Diamond (songwriter) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia »

 

I think AC/DC and the Cars made good records before Mutt. Def Leppard not so much. Desmond Child was probably equally successful though more for songwriting than production.

 

Mutt Lange's production sounds like it comes from a clean-room in outer space.

 

Nope, didn't forget at all. The Cars were on my radar screen at the beginning. Definitely Roy Thomas Baker deserves credit for helping shape the sound.

In the interest of full disclosure, my Cars collection includes:

The Cars (DCC gold)
Candy O (MFSL gold)
Panorama (remastered)
Shake It Up (MFSL gold)
Heartbeat City (AF gold)

The record company execs were no doubt rattled when Panorama came out. If it had delivered sales, they wouldn't have minded, but it wasn't like the first two. As we all know, sometimes the producer is deliberately dispatched by the record companies to "shape" the sound to generate sales. If you look over this list, and where The Cars were at that stage of their career, it wasn't a major leap of effort. Any competent producer of the time could have achieved the same results.

If sales were the intent, then good for him. Didn't know until just now that he was producing Loverboy. However, if they were looking for some artistic integrity, Loverboy should have continued in the direction of "Take Me to the Top."

 

Its been my understanding that (at least in his prime - the 80s - and certainly with Shania as well) whether he was "sought after" or not was totally irrelevant. It wasn't a case of acts choosing him to produce, it was more a case of him hearing an act who he saw potential in such as Def Leppard and Shania Twain after hearing both act's debut albums, and approaching them with an offer to produce (and co-write). Or if he felt he had something to add to an act that he liked, and wanted to help bump them up to the next level - Foreigner/Cars or Bryan Adams who he also co-wrote the album with.

It wasn't like he was some hack sitting by the phone just waiting for his next job offer - ANY job offer!

 

i started this thread not to praise Mutt or condemn him.
just to show the fact that Mutt Lange, more than any other producer, leaves bigger imprint whether album succeeds or not regardless of talent level of the artist.

after reading some of the replies, it sounds like (some of) you guys believe anybody could've done what he did and that he just got lucky at the right time...
let's point out both Foreigner & The Cars were on down slope of their career after brilliant beginning. it may not show it bluntly in the charts but...if you look (& listen) closely then you'll know what i'm talking about. plus how do you explain what happened AFTER working with Mutt ?? i'm indifferent to Mutt Lange, the producer. i think he's a brilliant opportunist, forward thinker, etc. but that doesn't mean he's the greatest producer or somethin'. BUT let's give credit where credit is due. without him pushing those bands to come up with 'no filler' to round out albums as they usually have done yearly back in those days...these classic monster albums wouldn't be what it is.

 

Epic song

 

Dude, I don't recall ever once poundering over the last 21 years would course of events led to Mutt Lange producing and marrying Shania Twain. My thoughts were offered for the purposes of the thread. Don't recall ever accusing him of being some hack either. However, the labels wouldn't retain his services, or offer an eye-popping budget, if they didn't expect that specific producers could help place artists in bankable chart positions.

 

He deserves blame.

 

For what?

Ed

 

Foreigner Albums!

 

He did one Foreigner album and it's great. No need to blame him. On top of that, he got fantastic vocals from the already amazing Lou Gramm. That may be his best album vocally.

Ed

 

A translation of that sentence into english would be much appreciated.

PS - The only thing I was responding to in my previous post was the portion I bolded, in which you claimed he wasn't sought between Heartbeat City and Shania Twain. I responded by saying it doesn't work that way with Lange. He always (in his prime at least) chose who he wanted to work with - and only worked when he wanted to. He turned down Def Leppard for Hysteria (claiming that he needed a break after Heartbeat City. So Def Leppard began work with Jim Steinman producing, and at some point during recording with Steinman they decided to fire him, and scrap all the work done so far. They then contacted Lange and asked him again to produce Hysteria, pointing out that they'd be willing to wait for him to be ready to work. So if you're saying I'm wrong and it DOES work that way with Lange where he waited for (or needed to wait for) job offers to come in, then go ahead and offer some examples to back that up.

George Martin didn't produce a large number of bands after The Beatles. Do you think it was because he "wasn't sought after"? No need to answer that because Martin answered it himself when he said he had so many requests to produce bands in the 1970s that he could turn down most of the offers and enjoyed the luxury of being able to pick and choose who he felt he liked the most and who he felt he could most benefit.

 

Sorry, didn't realize it was imcumbent upon me to track the progress of Def Leppard before replying in this thread.

Apart from Jeff Beck, America and then, years later, Celine Dion and then the Monserrat DVD, but so what? Was this something that was supposed to cross my mind? Yeah, it's already been pounded into my head in numerous threads that The Beatles have to be the default answer in every thread, no matter how irrelevent to the topic. It's also been brought to my attention that you always have to quote my posts, just to initiate an argument/debate. The bait will not be taken anymore.

 

Reasonable comments - and I certainly did not in my prior comments try to make a case that "anyone could have done it" - just that Lange wasn't the only one who could have, which is a lot different.

But I do wonder - do we know for sure that Lange pushed the bands to come up with better/more consistent material? I'm not saying he didn't, just honestly would be interested to hear about specific instances, particularly if there are quotes from the artists themselves that are out there, where they say he gave them a kick in the ass they needed to come up with better material.

For the Cars at least this seems kind of far-fetched. They were really pretty consistent. PANORAMA not selling to my ears had more to do with conscious artistic choices - to me it is a fabulous album, just not as pure pop oriented as the first two records. While Ocasek did seem to hit a bit of a songwriting slump around SHAKE IT UP, the weakest of the first four, I suspect that may have been more due to the pressure of having to crank out top level material for a series of albums more or less on his own rather than "holding back" or not trying hard enough. Don't forget too that Ocasek also put out a solo album in 1982, smack in between SHAKE IT UP and HEARTBEAT CITY, which had some killer stuff that could otherwise easily have appeared as Cars tracks ("Something to Grab For" was especially good and sounds like a Cars single to me). He was really producing.

I'm happy to acknowledge Lange deserves some credit, I just wonder whether he gets too much.

I think what happened after Mutt for these bands happens to a lot of bands who peak out, regardless of who produced them. How many rock acts out there are good for more than about 5 or 6 truly outstanding releases before the inevitable down hill slide - due to aging past your target audience, egos, the trappings of the business, and just plan tapping out of ideas? There's really only a relative few. Generally, after hits that big, there's only one direction to go, and it isn't up.

 

I've got nothing he produced. Coincidence? I don't know.

 

several songs on that bryan adams album sound like great def leppard tunes. to me i wondered if mutt gave def leppard rejected bryan adams ideas for the album adrenalize

 

how do you not have ac/dcs 2 most popular albums?