The LP12 - where is the love?

You still have your eyes closed to alternatives and insist in comparing with inferior and better designs. Linn are well overpriced in comparison to better engineered and finished turntables that produce similar level of performance if not arguably better. Linn rely on people who are hooked on the Linn sound. Of course spending more money on an Lp12 will get you a better LP12 but not one of the better turntables for that expenditure.

 

Agreed

 

I disagree. I looked at all the alternatives in my price bracket that I could get locally. I owned a VPI and still own a Rega and researched many others including Michell, Avid, Clearaudio, VPI etc. Although they each have their strengths, they also have weaknesses and despite what's being said it doesn't require a closed mind to choose a Linn turntable.

The LP12 has a lot to offer and has a lot of value if its strengths match up with the values of the buyer. For some reason, certain people seem to be extremely dedicated to trying to disparage them, but the fact is that if they were in reality over-priced they wouldn't sell. Obviously enough people feel they are worth it to keep them in production and selling. Personally, I bought mine (primarily Akurate level) because it sounded the best to me of all the options I heard at the price.

 

I have several decks that I prefer to any Linn I'

You do realise just how close Linn came to not being around anymore don't you, as for just how many they are actually selling I think the huge increase in price over the last thirty years is an indication that they sell very few decks and have to hike prices as a result. I've already pointed out the relative pricing of an LP12 and Michell Gyrodec in 1981 compared with today, the next time I'm in my loft I'll see what old magazines I can dig out and we can see how inflation has affected other deck manufacturers, I'm far from convinced all those increases have been going on R&D at Linn, as others have pointed out it's still effectively a 50 year old borrowed design and the only "exotic" material I recall them using was old whisky casks for which they charged something like £40,000 didn't they?

Some people prefer Linns, some people don't, some of us remember how they used their connections and a dominant market position to manipulate the UK Hi Fi press and to an extent the market, the first time I heard a Pink Triangle I started questioning why Linns were so highly regarded as for me it outperformed the Linn in every way, unfortunately the Linn beat it hands down for reliability, then the Roksan Xerxes came along and myself and many, many others had another superior alternative to Linn, but this time readily available. We missed out on pretty much every high end Japanese, American or Continental record deck because Linn had the UK press so in their pocket that foreign decks might as well have been invisible, thirty years later I still resent that, we were lied to and deceived, but an awful lot of us used our own ears and discovered a lot of better sounding alternatives. I still haven't heard a Klimax, but my Orbe/SME IV, my Xerxes/Artemiz and my more humble Gyro SE/TechnoArm all sound better to me than any Linn I've ever spent time with and that's all I care about, Linn owners are free to disagree, sound quality is a very subjective thing and we all have our own opinions of what's right.

 

Huh? You really think an LP12 is not one of the better turntables?

 

Ok.... So I went to Brighton last week and picked up the Klimax LP12 for a home demo.

Have spent some time this weekend listening to it, via the Nagra Jazz and my ATCs. Also did some comparisons to my RP6 with Dyna 20x2 cart.

I really like the sound... it's warmer now, meatier, yet there is a bit more detail.

I also have to say though that the upgrade in sound quality is - whilst clearly there - not mind blowing. It's almost a matter of a different sound rather than a clearly better sound. But a sound that I prefer...

 

I'm not surprised, really. While I think that certain upgrades are upgrades, I think others are more differences rather than moves up. I'm not surprised that the Klimax LP12 sounded better than an RP6, and I'm not surprised that the differences are (given the price difference) nevertheless relatively subtle. I think that once you get to a certain point, as in many things, the rule of diminishing returns starts setting in, and setting in hard. The RP6 is a good turntable. The Linn Majik LP12 is a good turntable. The Linn Klimax LP12 is a good turntable. Given the tendency towards hyperbole in the media and forums, I would expect them to sound different, but relatively subtly so in their differences (particularly if they used the same cartridges). However, I would have been surprised if the Linn (or practically any turntable) was so good as to make the RP6 sound "broken." I note, however, that for a lot of people those subtle differences can make or break a component; whether the additional price is worth it, likely depends on income and priorities.

 

I'm going to guess a coastal town between Dundee and Aberdeen beginning with "M"!

I was going to take my Axis in for a set up (bought on eBay) but it's been working just fine.

 

Well , my P9 did not sound "broken" but I could not turn the volume pot up over 11-12 o'clock without tremendous feedback. The deck was on a wall shelf and properly set up. In my room, the energy was being sucked up by the Rega and it was causing instability.
Placed a LP12 on the same shelf- no problems. So the suspended design of the LP12 solved the problem in my room.
Just saying, certain situations lend themselves better to a specific turntable design. Does not matter that this suspended design is old school engineering- it works better for me. I too do not understand the constant denigration of the LP12 as being old desgn, overpriced, jump out of tune, etc. Total hogwash! Its a great deck period and if you like its sound signature, I do, can last a lifetime. Ok, Ill get off of my soapbox now...
ATB,
Mark

 

That's fantastic you got to take one home to hear. That's virtually unheard of in the States. So was the Kandid the cart fitted?

 

I think so too... In a way I was expected a huge plus in "Hifi quality", but I would say the main difference I am hearing between the Rega/Dynavector and the Lp12 is that music is just a bit richer and more enjoyable.
(and at the same time, if you listen closely, you notice that there are more details, but that isn't really the focus)

 

Yes, Kandid fitted. has 50-100 hours on it, they say.

If I decide to keep it I'd play around with other cartridges when it is time for a replacement... dont really want to spend 3k on a cart but as it comes as part of the package I mind it less.

 

Sometimes those subtle changes make a huge difference when you live with something for awhile.

 

I would say the LP12 is more 'musical' as well! Nice foot tapping touch to it.

JG

 

... but it's also 10k more expensive ...

 

Yes, the price of the Kandid kept me away even in trade in as my Akiva reached the end of its life. I ended up trying an Audio Note IQ3 which is a wonderful value.

 

I just added a Lingo 3 replacing my rebuilt Valhalla and it was well worth the investment. Sound stage, pace and bottom end all improved. Bought the LP12 a few years back when TT's were still in the dumps for $550. Over the years I added an Ittok arm, Cirkus upgrade and a Dynavector 20XL2 cart. I have no desire to change TT's.

 

So the cart on the top of the range Linn costs more than three times what a mid-range RP 6 does, hardly surprising it sounds better, I'd like to hear how the Linn fairs against a RP10/Apheta, I suspect the Rega will be very close to the Linn with personal taste being the deciding factor.

 

Possibly... I have compared an RP10 with a Lyra Delos and a nice Kiseki cart against an Akurate Level LP12 actually, and found them similar, possibly with a slight edge for the LP12.

Now this doesn't seem to gel with my statement that the Klimax LP12 isn't worlds apart from my RP6... so either I really like the Dynavector cart + Dynavector phonostage that I have on my RP6. Or all of these turntables are already pretty excellent these days and differences aren't quite as drastic as the Hifi press makes them out to be.

 

Probably both, I took it as a given that you liked the Dynavector and the RP6 is far from a bad deck, magazines are there to generate advertising which means that we continually get the latest and greatest, there are genuine improvements, occasionally small jumps, but it's not like any current deck is hugely better than the equivalent model from ten years ago, it would be interesting to compare the Klimax with an older full spec Linn, I bet there's little in it other than cost.

Anyway I think you are a Linn man at heart and there's nothing wrong with that, even if my deck preferences lie elsewhere, so come on then, are you buying the Klimax? Is it the one I linked to, if so I reckon they'd do you an even better deal, signing up for their newsletter will get you 5% off, I'd offer them ten grand cash and see what they say, any savings can go towards the Nagra.

 

Just out of interest can someone tell me what the signature LP12 sound is? Is it warm? Bright? what frequencies are enhanced if any?

 

I think this is the likely answer!

 

I'd say rhythmic, involving. Sounds like real people playing music. How that's achieved I can't tell you.

 

While anything's possible, I've owned and been reading about the LP12 for decades and I can't EVER recall the word 'bright' being used! I'd go so far as to say a 'bright' sounding LP12 would indicate something's wrong in the system somewhere!

 

I used to have an LP12/Ittok/Karma with a Naim 42/HiCap/250 and I found the sound strident rather than bright, when I changed to a Croft pre/power valve (tube) setup it disappeared. For me the Naim was causing the problem.

JG