Is it possible for a cartridge to be too good for your set-up?

Insane question I know. But here me out.

I've had a Harmon Kardon 330c and Polk Monitor 5's for years. Love 'em to death.

I recently upgraded from a Rega P1 to a Pro-Ject Carbo Esprit. I then decide to take a real plunge and replace an Ortofon 2M Blue with a Dynaector 10x5.

I've always been pleased overall with my set-up, even if it wasn't the ultimate audiophile experience. When I first played the Dynavector, things just seemed that much more detailed and clear. But about 10 hours in, the cartridge sounds surprisingly ... absent. It seems like I have to crank the volume to get any richness or depth and especially spare stuff (think Sly Stone's "There's a Riot Goin' On'') almost dissipates when I play it.

Just wondering if this a part of the breaking-in process or if my cartridge is literally too good for the rest of my system and I now need to upgrade my receiver.

Thoughts?

Thanks

WJ

 

You could compare the output voltages of the carts. Your new cart may have lower power output and need more amplification. Perhaps a more dynamic phono stage would help.

 

That was my first thought as well, the blue does have a higher output voltage by a good bit. The weird thing is that it was good and then got worse? It wouldn't make sense that cart would get quite after any amount of breaking in time, let alone only ten hours. I could have been a bit loose, shifted and got out of alignment after ten hours. I don't know that would make it quiet by comparison but certainly worse.

No matter what, a new phono stage is great advice and double checking the alignment on the cart is the first place to look.

Edit: I just double checked. the 2m blue is 5.5 and the dyna is 2.5 on output voltage.

 

The change in sound could be attributable to a number of factors, including a change in the listener's "ear" as he becomes more acclimated to the new sound. I have also noticed that "break-in" is not a linear process where the sound gradually gets better. It is often the case that the sound actually seems to get worse before it again gets better (that, too could be the listener acclimation taking place). Note too, that as the suspension in the cartridge loosens up during break-in, the set up parameters could change slightly, such as the VTA could increase. At the end of 30-40 hrs of break-in, one might need to check set up to see if that needs tweaking.

Whether one cartridge is better than another has a lot to do with system matching and personal taste. The cheaper cartridge certainly could be "better" for your system and your taste.

Physical incompatibility of a better cartridge with a cheaper arm could happen too, but, that usually is more obvious with really vast differences. For example, some of the better moving coil cartridges actually transmit a lot of vibrational energy from tracing the grooves into the arm. More expensive arms tend to do a better job of damping or transmitting such vibration away from the cartridge to minimize the feedback to the cartridge, while cheaper arms with not as good bearings will tend to rattle more. I heard this when a friend who was just starting out in playing records temporarily put an Ortofon Per Winfeld on the cheapest Project table (the arm was adapted to take the high mass cartridge). The result was a buzzy sound and poor tracking, particularly on highly modulated grooves.

 

Yes, it's possible for a cartridge to be incompatible with your turntable/arm or phono stage & therefore a higher end cartridge could be 'too good'. I tried a 2M Black on a low level Pro-Ject & it didn't handle IGD or sibilance too well but on a mid range Rega it was fine (both tables were set up with the correct arc protractor & digi scales).

 

Are you saying you liked the sound of the DV at first, but then it got worse? My experience breaking in a 10x5 was that the lower frequencies were erratic for awhile before finally settling in. Can't recall how many hours it took--surely more than 10, but it was really weird how in one listening session the lower frequencies would be there and in the next they wouldn't and so on. IIRC I sometimes heard the output level of the lower frequencies fluctuate while I was listening too. So I'd say give it more time to settle in. I don't think a 10x5 is too good for your table, but it's possible you don't have an ideal match with your phono stage.

 

The Dyna has a lot less output than the Ortofon so you probably need to have the volume knob much higher. And sometimes even high output MCs need more gain than MMs system dependent. So this may be a case of a cartridge not being the best choice for the other components. A VTA adjustment could help if possible with your arm. If you want to try a separate phono you can find something like a Rotel RQ970 for a good price on the used market.

 

Preamps tend to operate better when the preamp is turned up higher so cranking the volume shouldn't be a problem unless your preamp is out of spec or poorly designed. Most preamps have slightly higher distortion at low volume levels. You don't state that the volume is maxed out and still isn't enough.

In general the issue is much more about system compatibility than nebulous concepts of one component being too good for the audio system.

 

I've never owned a Dynavector, but from what understand the 10x5 is more similar than different from the my BPS EvoIII. I've owned the 2M Blue and Black and I can say that the Ortolan's are a bit more "In your Face" (if that makes sense) where the HOMC is a tad more laid back (darker background, softer upper mids). I am in the "give it some time" camp. I think they are both decent carts and only a tier or two different on the scale.

 

Walt,

First off you have a great cartridge there. If you liked the sound at first but think it's a bit dull I'd probably attribute that to setup over the cartridge. Breakin does occur on cartridges, and to be honest that is the only part of my system I've ever noticed a change in sound from breakin.

How was your cartridge setup? Someone do it for you or you did yourself? Having a good protractor is critical for any tables setup (with the exception of Regas and it's so freaking easy to get it perfect there). Any VPI owner should invest in that realm as it's so critical and temperamental the setup on those.

I did notice a drop on levels switching from a Soundsmith to Dynavector , but I just bumped the tubes in my pre to 12at7's and Bob's your uncle.

Outside of getting into super exotic crazy priced cartridges , I'd have to say you can't really upgrade too much in that realm. You will hit a point where you gain nothing as the arm/plinth/pre are not up to the snuff.

 

Thanks all. I've been on the road thus haven't used my system at all since posting this but it's given me a lot to chew on. The cartridge was installed by a beyond credible shop using all the right tools. I'll just give it some more time and see how it progresses. I know from experience that it takes the ear a while to adjust to a new cartridge (if nothing else to forget what they miss about the old one) but I tend to prefer MC to MM (duh) and I understand the 10x5 to be relatively "in your face" for a MC so hopefully everything will fall into place. If not ---- anyone else got suggestions for a separate phono stage? Or maybe I just need to upgrade to the larger version of the Harmon Kardon. What's the next one up from the 330e?

 

I agree with those who suspect an issue involving the different outputs of the cart. The Denon has less than half the output voltage of the Ortofon -- 2.5 mV vs. 5.5 mV. It's going to drive the phono stage very differently. In fact, I think the input sensitivity on the phono input of that receiver is around 2.8 mV, so the Denon, without a higher gain phono pre in front of it, doesn't even put out enough output to drive the receiver to full power, not that you'd ever want to do that, but I'm not surprised to hear that the OP feels like he needs to crank to volume to get any umph into the sound. I'd say most of all it's not the best match of cart and phono stage. If the OP is committed to the cart, might be worth it to pick up an outboard phono stage with sufficient gain and sensitivity for the cart; if the OP is committed to the receiver, might be better to try a higher output cart (or a LOMC and an appropriate SUT).