Is rock out of the conversation?

Two rock albums in a row topping the UK chart. If it's rock and it goes number one, there's a pretty good chance that I'm gonna buy it. I been listening to Viola Beach most of this past week. Now I'm listening to Blossoms.

Viola Beach; further proof that the fastest way to become a legend is to die. I just hope the suits don't go scraping the bottom of the barrel for every half-baked demo or song fragment these guys ever recorded.

I questioned Bowieboy earlier for repeatedly citing Coldplay and Maroon 5 as the mainstream rock standard of the 10s. Seems I have to rethink that. Martin and Levine ever reclaim their b@ll$ and their music isn't that far from removed from either Viola or Blossoms.

So I listened to some of the 1975, Fall Out Boy, Bastille, and Imagine Dragons again last night. As an American who came of age musically in the 70s, I'm starting to wonder if I don't fully appreciate the scope of influence the 80s new romantic and synthpop bands still have especially in the UK.

I did another thread on the 90s. As I was re-listening to those songs, I was somewhat surprised at how commercial so many of those alt and indie bands sound now in 2016. I guess that's an indicator of how fully that sound has been incorporated in the rock mainstream. Yet I've read Viola Beach and Blossoms described as indie, alternative, or both.

For lack of a better term, I've been using post-whatever to describe most of today's newer bands. How alternative can any band be when their topping the charts? Or is just about anything that doesn't have the traditional blues and country influence going to automatically be called alt/indie? (Except for metal, of course.)



Viola Beach - Swings and Waterslides »

 

I have a 21 year old daughter & a 18 year old son. All their friends listen to Rap, Hip Hop., Dance, Pop, & some Country. They tell me No one listens to older music that they know.

 

This describes 90-95% of youth.

 

I didn't really listen to old music when I as a teen either. It was pretty much the rock, metal, indie, shoegaze, grunge ect.... That was happening at the time. That's what I was into. I got to the older stuff later.

 

To me, the 2016 MTV VMA's essentially gives us the answer many of us don't want to hear. Not a single rock performer, the closest to "rock" actually was Beyonce who has gotten some airplay on alternative stations because of her duet with Jack White. Lukas Graham being essentially the only "guy with instrument" and he is closer to Bruno Mars or Justin Bieber than he is to a rock musician.

 

But that's been true in the past as well - I can't remember when it was, but I remember vividly around 30 years ago watching one of those shows and the only performer who had a guitar was Joan Jett. Rock was around then, and it's around now. It's just not in the VMA's.

 

If kids aren't listening to older music, it's partly because the music they're listening to isn't leading them to it. I immediately started seeking out older music once I gave up the embarrassing pre-teen stuff.

Today's music is a very closed-off genre, with few antecedents in the past. In fact, the way it's designed, it's often obliterated the genres that came before it.

 

Or stuff like this?

 

well the VMA's always had at least one or two token rock performers, and then you had the 80s and 90s where they were loaded (like in 92 where we had Nirvana, U2, Guns N Roses, Pearl Jam and a couple others) and even in the 00s they usually had at least one or two "token" rock acts.... now you have to really loosely liberate your definition of rock to Maroon 5 and Lukas Graham to stretch to find a "rock" act invited today. It's only been the last 3-4 years where MTV essentially disinvited rock from their party... and the VMA's are a celebration of what is "hot" with the youth... ie no Bowie or Prince tribute because their token demographic likely knew little of who they were except that they died. 30, 20, even 10 years ago, this wasn't the case and rockers would be invited to their party.

And I actually find some twisted irony in the fact that MTV used to be criticized for being too rock-slanted and everything early on, whereas now a ton of pop and r&b acts perform on their show and not a single rocker to the extent even Adele would bring some "rock cred" to the show if she was invited.

 

A rundown of past VMA's in terms of "rock"

1984 (Tina Turner and Rod Stewart can be argued)

• Rod Stewart – "Infatuation"
• Huey Lewis and the News – "I Want a New Drug"
• David Bowie – "Blue Jean"
• ZZ Top – "Sharp Dressed Man"

1985 (Eurythmics and Hall And Oates could be argued for)

• Tears for Fears – "Shout"
• John Cougar Mellencamp – "Lonely Ol' Night"
• Pat Benatar – "7-Rooms of Gloom"
• Sting – "If You Love Somebody Set Them Free"

1986 (Robert Palmer and Tina can be argued for)

• The Hooters – "And We Danced"/"Nervous Night"
• The Monkees – "I'm a Believer"/"Daydream Believer"
• 'Til Tuesday – "What About Love"
• INXS – "What You Need"
• Van Halen – "Best of Both Worlds"/"Love Walks In"
• Mr. Mister – "Kyrie"/"Broken Wings"
• Genesis – "Throwing It All Away"

1987 (Run-DMC can be argued since they brought Aerosmith with them)

• Bryan Adams – "Only the Strong Survive"/"Victim of Love"
• The Bangles – "Walk Like an Egyptian"/"Walking Down Your Street"
• Bon Jovi – "Livin' on a Prayer" (live from New York City)
• Crowded House – "Don't Dream It's Over"/"Now We're Getting Somewhere"
• Whitesnake – "Still of the Night"
• The Cars – "You Are the Girl"/"Double Trouble"
• David Bowie – "Never Let Me Down" (live from Montreal)
• Prince – "Sign o' the Times"/"Play in the Sunshine"

1988 (Elton could be argued, even Cher at this stage in her career)

• Aerosmith – "Dude (Looks Like a Lady)"
• Depeche Mode – "Strangelove"
• Crowded House – "Better Be Home Soon"
• Guns N' Roses – "Welcome to the Jungle"
• INXS – "New Sensation"

1989

• Def Leppard – "Tear It Down"
• The Cult – "Fire Woman"
• Jon Bon Jovi and Richie Sambora – "Livin' on a Prayer"/"Wanted Dead or Alive"
• The Cure – "Just Like Heaven"
• The Rolling Stones – "Mixed Emotions"
• Axl Rose and Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers – "Free Fallin'"/"Heartbreak Hotel"

1990

• Mötley Crüe – "Don't Go Away Mad (Just Go Away)"
• INXS – "Suicide Blonde"
• Faith No More – "Epic"
• World Party – "Put the Message in the Box"
• Aerosmith – "Love in an Elevator"

1991

• Van Halen – "Poundcake"
• Poison – "Talk Dirty to Me"
• Queensrÿche – "Silent Lucidity"
• Metallica – "Enter Sandman"
• Don Henley – "The Heart of the Matter"
• Guns N' Roses – "Live and Let Die"

I can go on and on, but I'll even use 2006 for example... a time where Beyonce, Kanye, Rihanna.... were already big stars and social media/YouTube/Facebook.... was already a "thing"

• My Chemical Romance – "Welcome to the Black Parade"
• The Raconteurs and Lou Reed - "White Light/White Heat"
• OK Go – "Here It Goes Again"
• The All-American Rejects – "Move Along"
• Panic! at the Disco – "I Write Sins Not Tragedies"
• Tenacious D – "Friendship Song"
• The Killers – "Enterlude"/"When You Were Young"

Compare this to the last 2-3 years where you have to liberally stretch the definition of rock to Maroon 5 and Lukas Graham to think up a "rock" act, and where Beyonce is the act performing with the most credibility in the rock world. Even to be like it was in 2006 again would be earthshattering where they had seven acts who could be argued as rockers, including a freaking Velvet Underground cover. Compare it to the hellhole we're in now where Adam Levine may as well be Ozzy Osbourne to these people.

 

Rock music doesn't have to worry about the tape player skipping or the wrong song playing (remember Ashlee Simpson on Saturday Night Live?).

 

I’ve been away for a month and I’m glad I missed this one.

Resonant, relevant, hot, important, part of "the conversation," innovative, popular amongst the trendsetters — all of the pretentious, boring suck-up qualities I least value or seek in rock music.

 

Wouldnt this mean that music didn't stop evolving after Nirvana and it is indeed the "new" sound that this forum has been waiting for?

 

I don't think the forum is looking for a complete break with the past, especially as rock proved itself to be pretty limitless as to what can be done. Besides, there's nothing new under the sun. Unless one wants to trash all of the traditional elements that constitute "music", which I think is what has been done. And I'm not sure that's progress.

 

Yes, that track is (inspired by) late 80s Acid house - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia », surely a forerunner of modern EDM.

 

I just checked the Billboard top 200. Excluding legacy titles, there are only 5 rock albums in the top 100, the highest ranking being "Coldplay" at number 20. Given how minuscule sales are for anything not in the top 10, that's pretty dang moribund.

 

Coldplay may only be sitting at number 20 now, but it peaked at number 2. As I pointed out earlier in this thread, there's been 25 rock albums make the US top ten so far this year.

 

Just 10 years ago, there were 51 rock songs that made the UK top ten. This year, your favorite is the only band to be found.

 

I'm not looking for a new sound. I just wanna hear some electric guitar.

 

I guess I'd like to say one more thing on the subject. I talk to people all the time about music. A lot of the time I just mention bands without classifying them as rock, dance, new wave, or anything else. It's just talk about artists I like, and they talk about artists they like.

My point in all of this, is that I'm not worried about not being "with it". I like what I like and I'm open about it here on the forums, too. I've never felt like anybody's considered me unhip because of my taste, and I have no idea whether rock is alive and well or whether it died in the '70's. When I'm listening to the albums I want to hear, it seems pretty irrelevant.

I'm not trying to hold myself up as an example of anything, so please excuse me if I come off that way. All I'm really saying is, what's there to worry about? Some people have said that rock died in the '70's, and if it did, what difference does it make? I can still like what I like, listen to what I listen to, and have a great time exploring whatever's out there. Isn't that the only thing that matters?

 

These more "polished" pop-alt rock bands don't appeal to me very much. I went to the Summer Sonic Festival here in Japan but was there primarily to see Radiohead and missed both the 1975 and the Blossoms. I was kind of interested in the Blossoms but they were on early and it was way too hot and way too crowded. Obviously the Blossoms had been booked before they hit no. 1, or they wouldn't have been playing at noon. I'll be in Singapore for an event next month, where the headliners are Imagine Dragons, Queen and Kylie. I am torn on Imagine Dragons, but will probably give it a shot. I realize that they are very popular, but as you say, I prefer my alternative rock to be a bit more . . . alternative.

 

I was thinking about this thread tonight and came to the conclusion that perhaps one of the reasons that rock isn't a particularly hip genre for the kids nowadays is due to the electric guitar having run its course with the old I-IV-V progression ages ago. In addition to that the visual spectacle of someone posing with/playing a guitar is very much identified with the second half of the 20th Century. I can completely relate to a younger version of myself being drawn instead to someone playing some virtual decks or a laptop. Things have changed, dudes.

Aside from what St Vincent has recently been doing with guitar, I think the last time electric guitar did something genuinely new in 'rock' was Sonic Youth's ascendency in the 1980's culminating with Sister and Daydream Nation. For me, electric guitar still has a place in experimental/outer limits genres where some excellent work is being produced (i.e. David Grubbs) but within the strict rock/pop space guitar is a knackered medium.

 

I haven't read the entire 31 pages sorry.

No rock isin't dead gone or irrelevant. But it isin't the dominant form of music, as it was for decades. There's people who continue to write, perform & record in the rock style, Including some not in English.

I was intrigued by that Russian, all girl punk band that went to jail a few years ago. Reminded me of John & Yoko & Woodstock.

I didin't like it, but I liked the sincerity they had.

When I use the word rock, I mean everything from Elvis, to Beach Boys Pet Sounds, to Radiohead to Sgt Pepper & Steely Dan... it's a big umbrella.

We still have Bluegrass, Country, R&B, Techno, Rap, Hip Hop, polka music, punk, Grunge, jazz, Reggae, a lot of new names are invented... buzz words, styles..

Rock is no longer King, but I don't think its going to become obscure like polka music or Israeli folk tunes... it will be smaller like The Blues or Folk music, but with a certain market share. For several decades or more

 

I disagree. I think younger kids like what their parents like far more than we did when I was growing up. There's not really that much of a generation gap anymore in a lot of households. A lot of young kids love classic rock.

 

Not where I'm from, they don't!