New dedicated listening room / seeking advice

So, finally, after a move / job change I am getting around to setting up my dedicated listening room in the new house. I just installed room treatments and am enjoying some pretty good sound. I have yet to take any measurements so I'm doing everything by ear thus far.

Here's the view down the narrow hallway that leads to the room which is in a finished basement. This is what I am seeking advice on, mostly - should I put a door here so I can seal the room? As it stands now there is plenty of sound that makes its way into the larger room on the other side. On the other hand having it open may help with flatter bass response? The hallway is definitely echoey.


The room dimensions are 26x14x7 (feet). So it's a long room with a low ceiling. But, good volume, as evidenced by pretty decent bass response.

Note the room length varies left to right of the opening as you can see with the tile, the wall is offset a foot and a half for reasons only the builder knows...

Some views of the room from different angles. Speakers are about 5 feet from the back wall and 3 feet from the side walls. Sometime in the future I'm going to hang a flat panel screen where the tapestry is (and put a curtain or something in front of it when not watching it).

The acoustic panels are suede Acoustimac panels, each 4x2 feet. I have 12 hung on the walls, plus one large bass trap in the corner.


I have the two very close together panels centered on the primary lateral reflections on the right and the left. Damping this reflection is supposed to help a lot.


From behind the turntable:


View from the hotseat:


The sound is great, magical at times, with a very full left to right and front to back soundstage (not a whole lot up and down, no surprise with the low ceiling). I am just beginning to adjust to the sound. I always feel I need a couple weeks to adjust to a major change in things. This is the first time I've used room treatments. The room had some slap echo and a long decay before I put stuff on the wall (no surprise). Now it's a pretty dry room with a quick decay (except what goes out the hallway and back).

Note the unfortunate air duct behind the hard ceiling tiles that lowers the ceiling even more. I discovered that the ceiling to the left of the duct is 1 inch lower than to the right... again for reasons that leave me scratching my head. However, I kind of like having some asymmetry in a room, I think it might help out with breaking up modes.

There was no master plan regarding placement of speakers. I tried to make a nice slightly tall equilateral triangle and toe the speakers a little, but not lasering them into my ears. I find the current toe in makes a bigger soundstage and also makes it nicer for others who are not in the sweet spot (eventually I am going to get a couch in there). I have the sub such that the driver is flush with the monitors, one way to avoid potential phase issues.

My initial impressions are very good with the current setup, bass is the only thing that I think could use some work, it's not super-flat, but it's better than I've ever had. I can follow basslines much better in this room, specific notes don't disappear or 'overbloom' nearly as much as with my other setup. However I may look into getting more bass traps, I think you can't really go wrong with more in the corners.

I know for definitive answers about room response I will need to take measurements. I am just wondering whether it makes sense to put a door there for acoustical reasons (sealed vs. open). I don't really have any other reason to put a door there. And any other advice or feedback is appreciated.

 

Hey; sweet mancave dude !!! Congrats ! 7 feet doesn't strike me as too low a ceiling. I would not worry about that. the ceiling tiles doesn't look hard or reflective; is that ceiling treatment I see on the pic ?

As for the door leading to the hallway, can you hear any reflection coming back from there ? If not, relax, unless the sound might disturb people on the other room at the end of it. My living room/listening room has a doorway leading to the kitchen that does wonders venting the angry bass nodes of the room, but it's just 12 X 13, so dunno if it's the same. If money is not a problem in your case install a door and assess the difference. If it impacts negatively, just leave it open.

 

Nice! Looks like a great new room!

Is the front of the room tapestry thick enough to be absorbing? Good softness in the center front always seems to me to make for good image depth and may also help when you have a chamber towards the rear tossing sound back in.

The ceiling tiles in the picture appear fairly hard. Kinda hard to tell. Normally I don't think much about needing to treat ceilings when the rest is good. But if it doesn't already have it, above might help with lower frequencies if you have a thick layer of insulation above the tiles. The hardness is tougher to treat without being visually big.

For the rear, the thought of the door might really be good, but hard to tell how much is coming from it. Lots of hard surfaces and depending on the delay, might be intrusive. An option might be to have a good free standing absorber to pull over into that path for a good listening session. I built a two sided Owens Corning free standing absorber for just such use. I have a wall outside the room just opposite the double door frame behind the listening chair (with no door hung) and it made a lot of difference on sound slapping back. About a foot and half off the floor for the bottom of the panel and four inches thick, it does a lot for me. Nice cloth on both sides keeps it domestically ok. Might be enough for that situation too.

Enjoy!

CJ

 

I like it congrats!

 

Great room!My goal one day.Tho I could never sit listening with a open hallway behind me,paranoid fantasies would freak me out,especially at night

 

Are these panels plywood backed? If not, mounting them with an air gap equal to their thickness should further improve low end performance at only the cost of the mounts / time / effort to do so.

 

My God that's a huge subwoofer! I think you need another one for the right channel.

 

It's hard, not sure what it's made of; it's rigid and has ridges and valleys if you know what I mean. I don't think reflections are causing problems, not getting any "glare" that I can tell.

Yeah, if I clap my hands I can hear an echo but it's weak. Sound leakage into the back room isn't a problem, only I hang out there. Regarding the door, I'd rather not put one in unless there is a good reason to (why spend the money). I was thinking having the huge volume of the rest of the basement "available" the very low bass should be pretty flat. Hm, I suppose I could put a carpet down in the hallway to keep the hallway echo down...

 

Looks like a very enjoyable room. Since most of the echo from the hallway will be high and mid frequencies, you could install a lightweight door, which will control that echo without sealing in too much bass. But then you might want to put some kind of acoustic treatment (even a rug) on the door to damp reflections.

I also have a basement room with a 7-foot ceiling, but after sealing mine against external noise, controlling the bass required some EQ.

Regarding ceiling reflections: early reflections from the ceiling can make the sound rather edgy. A couple of panels or sheets of Sonex might help if you have that concern. I did some experiments, holding blankets above my head, before I treated my ceiling. Because I am using electrostats, which are rather beamy, I treated the ceiling only in the rear, where the "beam" hits. It did make a difference, especially when listening to string quartets, harpsichord, or other music with a lot of HF content.

Have fun!

FYI, here are photos of mine:

 

CJ, that's a great idea. In fact I was thinking of getting one of those folding vocal booth systems for recording vocals. That would be something I could just place in front of the door.

The drop ceiling tiles are rigid, but not completely flat, so maybe they'll diffuse some of the sound, which I understand is good. Thanks for the advice on insulation. The tapestry is very thin and not meant to play an acoustic role, it's just for looks. I am eventually going to put a flat panel TV there. In the meantime anything is temporary.

 

Yes, they are plywood backed and are filled with Roxul Rockboard Core. They hang on the wall with "Z clips". Here's a link.

I suspect more bass traps are in my future.

 

Very very nice! I notice you have diffusors along the back wall. I've seen others with those as well. Can you explain how it affects the sound (vs having a bare wall in back)? I am thinking ahead to when the TV will be there, whatever goes over it will have to be able to be easily moved/rolled up (so probalby not diffusors unless than can be easily swapped in and out).

 

Yeah, boxing that sucker up for the move was tons of fun <flashbacks>.

 

Hi Leigh ... A little background. I'm extremely sensitive to HF distortion, peaks, and "glare." I think I have hyperacusis in the high frequencies. Not everyone is that sensitive, and I don't say that to compliment myself! Just to say that sometimes I go to extraordinary measures with acoustics, measures that other audiophiles don't think are necessary.

In this case, even though the speakers don't radiate towards that wall, I found that acoustic treatment there reduced the occasional glare I heard on soprano singing and some high violin notes. Since I have my acoustic panels hanging from rails, I was able to swap, and I preferred the diffusors on that wall and the ASC panels (fiberglass with diffuser strips) on the side walls. This was more spacious than the other way around. (The diffusors are from Vicoustic. I glued them to artist's canvas-stretcher frames and put Dynamat on the back to damp them.)

I see you are using Roxul, a very good material. (It's in all the walls and ceiling of my room.) If I may, I'd advise you not to add a lot of absorption to your room without any diffusion. It can give a "dead" sound, as I discovered in a previous room. I don't know if there are plans online somewhere for adding diffusion strips to homemade panels, as ASC does to theirs. It might be worth looking into, if you plan to add more acoustic treatment.

About the wall behind the speakers: it seems that what one needs or likes is very dependent on the room, speakers, and one's own ears. The only advice I can give is to experiment.

Happy listening!

 

Nice room! I had a pretty low drop ceiling in my old basement listening room too, I found adding 703 panels to the ceiling improved soundstage height in a BIG way. After that I would add some nice big floor to ceiling corner bass traps (especially behind the speakers) - like in Mike-48's room (also very nice!).

The only way to really know if your room will benefit from sealing that doorway is to experiment. Instead of springing for a "real" door, you could try hanging a thick curtain that covers the doorway, see what it does to the sound.

 

Beautiful room with lots of potential for many hours of great music enjoyment. My three suggestions are tube traps in the front wall corners. Replace a few ceiling acoutical panels above/infront of the speakers with absorption panels for early ceiling reflection absorption and install a diffuser panel in front of the opening to the hallway in the rear wall. This could be built ito a door or a movable free staning panel. Don't over dampen the room is good advice but diffusers need to be a good distance from the listening position for them to work well, the rear seems to be an ideal location.

 

Spot on ! That's what I did with the doorway that leads to the kitchen.

 

My only suggestion for your room is to get a chair with a low back.

 

A couple of thoughts. If the ceiling tiles are hard fibrous material similar to panels used in an office building, they are probably designed to absorb midrange frequencies. Also, 2" thick panels on the walls are designed to absorb midrange, 300hz on up ,aka male vocals on up. Bass traps would probably be a good suggestion. Put them where you hear bass buildup, probably front corners.
Lastly, the oddly shaped walls that are not parallel are a bonus.

 

To expand on that, it's often said that a chair-back higher than your shoulders can compromise the imaging. I know an audio reviewer who prefers a stool for that reason (that would make my back ache).

 

A stool seems a bit ridiculous, especially if you want to relax while listening. I lucked into a pair of very comfy (to me) low back chairs a few years ago during our annual neighborhood garage sale. My wife was a bit upset as she had recently bought a nice leather recliner for my listening room. It was comfortable, but the low back chairs "sound" so much better.

 

How did you explain that to your wife ? Can't picture a woman understanding the acoustic-related issues of such a choice. Mine insists on talking to me while I'm behind her....in wide open spaces were there's nothing her voice can bonuce off something and reach my ears, or noisy streets where her voice is totally drowned out by traffic. When I try to explain this simple principles to her all she would say is ¨you're deaf¨ in an angry way. Same person who shouts all the day at home. Oh well

 

Chairs went in my "stereo room," a room she rarely goes in to and has no control over. The only room in the house of course.

 

Lucky sod; you got a dedicated listening room ! I had to settle for the living room. It's her house but I foot ALL the bills so she can't complain much. Just 2 bedrooms and the unused one is only fit for headphone listening (provided you use a laptop ONLY)

 

Definitely looks like you have some nice things going on.......... but I do have a couple of things you may want to consider.

Firstly........sub location, driver size, EQ/time alignment, sealed vs ported and one sub or two............what methodology if any was employed in deciding these?
E.G..........IME having a sub in line with a main will cause delay issues.
E.G..........IME I would also expect 2 properly placed subs of appropriate size and type to outperform one large one in a stereo setting......especially if also DSP/EQ'd .

ALL the above play VERY big parts in seamless integration of high quality bass...........getting them right may actually REDUCE current required room treatments!!!

Secondly.......are tweeters at ear level and did you experiment with speaker position and toe in before deciding on their current location?

I also recommend running something like REW to take out the guesswork element of your room treatments......why spend on certain panels that may not be the right type or not even required.

Better to start with blank canvas and let REW identify the major issues BEFORE you treat.
Then you know what to treat for and can research the how and where..........more cost effective.

Good Luck