Entry Level Turntable Guidance

I've got the Project Debut Carbon and it works nicely for me. Putting a cork mat on it helped quite a bit.

 

I did that at the beginning. But the Acrylic platter made it even better. I now use the cork mat on the AT table - made it better, too.

 

Dammit - looks like it's time to go back to the piggy bank

 

As already mentioned, give the U-Turn a look. Great reviews on it and for $309 on their website, you can get the Orbit with an acrylic platter and a Grado Black cartridge. If I wasn't in Canada (no Canadian dealers), I would be all over it in a heartbeat. Still may pull the trigger on an Orbit Custom adding a pre-amp and cue lever. It's between it and the Pro-ject Debut Carbon.

 

If I recall correctly, Best Buy is now selling the Carbon. Think I saw it there on my last visit. May want to check that out. At least then you could play with it in person and see what you think

 

Love my Rega RP1

 

I have a Rega RP1 (with performance pack) and have been happy with it. I did put a Groovetracer subplatter on it though.

 

budgetLP.com has article just about that Top 5 turntables under 500$ - BudgetLP.com » they voted Pro-ject debut carbon dc as the best under 500$

 

Now having had the U-Turn Orbit Plus for a few weeks now, I'm really enjoying it a lot. About 10 days ago the sonics got noticeably better, I guess the Pluto phono stage (built in on mine), and / or the Ortofon OM5E cart reached their break in point.

To improve thing further I replaced the stock felt mat with a Herbie's Audiolabs Way Excellent II, and also added four of Herbie's Tall Tenderfooters to support and isolate the Orbit. I already had the turntable on an Auralex turntable isolation base, but adding the Tenderfeet along with the WE II mat made a big difference in the Sonics. As I had experienced in my home system, the Herbie's mat instantly adds a clarity to the music, nicely separating the instrumentation, you hear much more of what's on your records. The Tall Tenderfeet got rid of the somewhat thick sound quality I had been experiencing with the Orbit Plus. I had attributed that to the MM cart, (I'm used to using a MC cart at home with my Music Hall MMF-7). But it seams that isolating the turntable better is what was needed, and I'm very please with the sonics now.

All in all the Herbie's products were a $134 tweak to the table and well worth it IMO.

 

So anyone got any feedback on that Musical Fidelity turntable for $399 on closeout? That's a pretty cheap cartridge it comes with, maksd me wonder about the $1,000 original list price as being just inflated BS.

 

I'll give a plug for the Debut Carbon DC. Easy set up and I can't hear any noise on my modest system. I'll 2nd the acrylic platter, helped reduce static by a lot. In the dry desert air of phoenix it made a big difference. Had it 5 months and zero problems.

I also bought the pro-ject wall mount and the Project Phono Box S. I wanted the tube box but couldn't justify the $450. I think the wall mount helped a lot too. You can get it free from floor vibration and can level the table nicely. I think all the tweaks have helped some, but even without it's a fine looking and sounding Turntable for under $400. Sometimes when I sit back and listen I think the records sound warmer and more real. Whether imagined or not, I can lose myself in the music easily, which is all that matters.

 

You never know. It may be a really nice table, but with an entry-level cartridge. I haven't heard any negative feedback on it. Come to think of it, the VPI Scout Jr. is a $1,600.00 table, but comes pre-installed with an Ortofon 2M Red - a $100 cartridge also installed on that $400 Pro-Ject Debut of yours (and mine). The cartridge can always be upgraded, as long as the table quality merits it. Musical Fidelity as a brand known for good quality products, and their manufacturing is done in Taiwan, not China. By today's standards, Taiwan equals quality. So, slap and AT440 on it (or a 2M Blue), and it may shine...

 

I haven't heard your Box S, but I did justify the $450 and got the Tube Box S - and it sounds sweet. It replaced a very decent SS phono box - the NAD PP2. You CAN hear the difference.

 

The $1000 price tag is probably inflated. But, for $399 the MF should provide solid performance/enjoyment. The AT95, while inexpensive, is not "cheap" - it's a good general-purpose cartridge (I have one on my secondary TT). If you want "audiophile"-level sound, at least entry-level - just upgrade, there's a good choice of excellent cartridges in the $120 - $200 range. There's a lot of threads here about it. Read them.

 

I'd also consider the Fluance RT81 ($250) which received a stellar review from Steve Guttenberg, c|net's "The Audiophiliac". It seems like a solid, well-built turntable, based on its specifications. It includes the Audio-Technica AT95E cartridge. Not the cream-of-the-crop, but it will get you going, and allow you to spend more money on records.

Another few options to consider would be Rega's new Planar P1 ($475) and Planar P2 ($675). They both utilize the same cartridge but have different tonearms and platters. Of course, with the Planar P3, the old Rega RP3 has come down on price.

The choice is yours. Good luck.

 

Found a review on Amazon for that Roundtable, not real positive:

"this is made by Pro-Ject for Musical Fidelity. I will go as far as saying most of what you are paying for here is the name, Musical Fidelity. However, upon taking it out of the box, it's very clear that you have a run-of-the-mill Pro-Ject turntable with a slightly different tonearm and a High-Gloss finish. I also feel that this table is over-priced. There is no way this is a $1k turntable. It seems on par with other Pro-Ject offerings in the $400 + price range, but again, you are paying mostly for the name Musical Fidelity.

My table arrived in true Pro-Ject fashion, the Armrest was loose from the tonearm base where it is mounted (and this is not user adjustable). The arm was flopping around in the rest like a kite in the wind. The platter is also another interesting point. While it seems substantial and thick, as soon as you pick it up, it would seem that it's hollow or maybe not solid all the way through and seems very light for a solid slab of MDF. The cartridge is hap-hazardly mounted at the factory and must be re-adjusted for proper alignment. Even using the Pro-Ject alignment tool, the cart was incorrectly mounted and adjusted.

My level of disappointment was so great that I just packed it all back up and sent it right back to the place which is came from. I have actually auditioned a couple of Pro-Ject tables over the years and have been very disappointed with the quality. Lots of problems with Platter Wobble, Motor induced noise, and just plain poor QC. As I’m not a prestigious reviewer, I cannot get the personal touch in which the table is checked BEFORE they ship it to me…along with a check for a GREAT review, right…?"

 

On occasion, every one has a negative experience with one manufacturer or another. Let's not generalize right away, though. As we all thought here, this is not a $1,000.oo table. But, it should perform fine at its more appropriate $399 level, and one bad specimen does not mean they're all crap.

However, shifting gears a bit, I hate to disappoint you, but a $1K TT is NOT much different from a $400 TT, nowadays. The differences are largely cosmetic, a different plinth, and extra button of some sort, etc, but, where it counts - they are virtually the same. Want proof - see Pro-Ject's and Music Hall's lineups. Their $1k (and above, in some cases) tables will have the same tonearm, same motor, sometimes even the same cartridge. The differences will be: electronic speed change vs. manual, a thicker platter (mdf or acrylic), a thicker plinth with perhaps a a nicer-looking finish (Music Hall likes to laud the merits of their double and triple plinths "for isolation"), that sort of thing. Outside of these, largely cosmetic and only marginally functional differences, that $1K TT will be essentially the same as the $400 entry-level one from the same brand. Case in point - the "new" Pro-Ject Classic. Made to resemble the Linn LP-12, it is essentially the same Debut Carbon with a different plinth. Same motor, same tonearm, same cartridge, but renamed in a clever marketing trick - the 2M Silver is a re-badged 2M Red, but with silver coils. The cost - $1,100. Is it worth the extra $700 as compared to Debut Carbon DC? - Not to me. I upgraded my Debut Carbon with the acrylic platter, Blue stylus, and put an $80 isolation platform under it. I now dare any table costing up to $1600 or thereabouts to prove it has better sound. - It will not be easy.

Therefore, at least for myself, it's clear to me that, when you finally decide to upgrade the TT, one must skip at least two steps up in the lineup, and look at tables that actually offer a better tonearm, a better motor, and a much better cartridge - things that are actually responsible for extracting the sound from vinyl. Plinths, platters, isolation, damping, and alike, while important, are secondary in nature, and to spend a lot of extra money for them alone, without upgrading the primary things, makes no sense (to me).

 

I think the above could be said about a number of audio components and moving up the ladder. Certainly if you have the means there will be gains, but at what price and what corresponding level of enjoyment? For a middle classer, a 2k system with well chose parts provides the entertainment I seek. YMMV.

 

Agreed. That's why my logical next step TT would be a Rega RP-6 with Ortofon 2M Black. Next step above that - a VPI Classic, I, II, or above, depending on budget, with probably a LOMC cartridge of good repute. Beyond that, things just end being practical, IMHO. I don't see myself spending $10K-$25K on a turntable, let along those stratospheric gizmos for $100K - 200K, even if I could afford it. I mean, they would have to definitively and beyond a shadow of a doubt prove to me that $100K turntable is at least 20 times better than a $5k turntable (or 100 times better than a $1k TT). I don't think they can prove it with numbers. If so - than the claims are highly subjective, and it's up to you, your ears, and your wallet to decide if you think it's worth it. I know that a well-designed and made $5k TT would probably provide me with all the musical bliss I could possibly ask for and nullify any perceived need for upgrading from that point on. anything above that would be dictated by ego, not ears, at least in my case.

 

Rega mate !

 

Take a look at Rega, I have a RP6 and a RP1 PP (performance pack); no complaints here.