4K and you

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by SteveM, Jan 20, 2016.

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  1. daglesj

    daglesj Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norfolk, UK
    If I can hold out till 2020 then this might have all blown over too.

    I'm finding that entertainment tech trends are getting so fleeting its not worth spending much money on it or worth taking the plunge too often. 12 months is a long time nowadays. Investing thousands seems foolish.

    The Amazon Fire TV box I got 18 months ago for £60 is the only purchase I've made in years. A great purchase I might add, fine piece of kit. I did get a nice Pioneer DVD player a few weeks ago but that was a loft donation from a mate of mine as my 2006 Xbox 360 was starting to really grind. He was pleased to get rid of it.
     
  2. SteveM

    SteveM Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I'm gladly well behind the curve where new technology is concerned. I still have a non-Smart, app-free, web free flip cell-phone from 2001. It still works for what I need it for: occasional calls and SMS.

    Last week I purchased my first ever Blu-ray player very cheaply: Sony's top-of-the-range current model at £99. To date I have had no need / desire for one but now that UHD is just around the next corner the cost of BD's has fallen sharply so that now for the first time ever BD's cost the same or just a fraction more than SD DVD's. As I have over 1000 DVD's I couldn't (and had no desire to) upgrade my collection before now due to a) lack of availability of most titles on BD and b) the high cost of those titles which were available, not to mention the minor improvements in PQ on most of those titles. However for new purchases BD only now seems acutely more sensible than DVD's so that's what I intend to do from now on.

    With some UHD titles likely to be dual-disc format I also wonder if fresh 4K remasters will find their way onto the corresponding new BD?

    I'll be 'standard' HD for the foreseeable future. UHD / 4K I will catch up with in about 7 years time when I can do the same thing again.
     
  3. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    Location:
    PARRISH FL USA
    There are hobbyists in A/V who must have the latest and greatest. These folks typically provide early feedback which benefits the rest of us. We also benefit from the sales guys who push whatever is pricey onto their affluent customers. Too bad for those customers tossing away money, but many of us benefit!

    Generally, one can ignore the distraction of the latest techie acronyms. Avoid Best Buy. Learn from AVS Forum members, etc. (but ignore the acronym stuff). It has never been easier or more affordable to acquire the gear necessary for some pretty terrific A/V entertainment in the home. Additionally, those looking to take A/V into the realm of front projection home theater can now create a small scale theater experience with better quality image and sound. It isn't too hard to learn for those who really want to. And there are options for most budgets.
     
    Robert C, Matt Richardson and Vidiot like this.
  4. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    3D is officially dead in 2016, says Samsung.

    This year, the world’s largest TV manufacturer, Samsung, will move on. None of Samsung's 2016 TVs will support 3D. Not even the most expensive TVs that will sell for thousands of dollars will have 3D.

    3D has been on decline for years. When the industry moved on to 4K resolution it did not even bother to develop a 4K 3D standard, so 3D in the living room has been stuck at HD resolution.
     
    driverdrummer likes this.
  5. Gregory Earl

    Gregory Earl Senior Member

    Location:
    Kantucki
    From what I've seen in small doses is that 4K can sometimes fool you into thinking you're seeing 3D to a small degree.

    3D with glasses has been dead in my house since the batteries went dead in our glasses. We never bothered to change them.
     
  6. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    Location:
    PARRISH FL USA
    The perception of image depth isn't related to 4K, necessarily. Very few flat panel viewers will ever experience image depth and the reason is that the panel must be professionally calibrated for dark room viewing and then, of course, the room must be dark. I can guarantee you or anyone else that 1080P done right will amaze and surprise. Contrast in theaters is terrible, generally speaking. Takes a lot of light for such a huge screen. In the home, especially with a reference projector, contrast can be spectacular (thank you, JVC!).

    I hope 3D blu-ray doesn't die too soon. While 2D done right, which few have ever seen, is the real deal, I do like having 3D as an option for those films with 3D theatrical releases. UHD along with several other new acronyms is going to confuse consumers even more and since 3D can only be 1080P anytime soon, then 3D in the home may be in trouble.
     
    Vidiot likes this.
  7. Deuce66

    Deuce66 Senior Member

    Location:
    Canada
    The Masters - Amen Corner to be broadcast in 4K HD for Direct TV customers.

    2016 Masters To Be Broadcast in 4K UHD »

    Because this year for the first time, the Masters will be broadcast live in 4K Ultra High Definition (UHD). Not only is this a first for the Masters, it is the first time *anything* — sporting event or otherwise — has been broadcast live in 4K UHD in the U.S.

    Ironically, the promoters of this ultimate couch potato Olympics and techy TV moment are not age old Masters stalwarts CBS, but rather DirectTV, who, along with parent company AT&T, are launching a dedicated 4K UHD channel for subscribers, with the 2016 Masters kicking off the whole shebang. For 4K television owners, this means you’re finally going to get your live TV money’s worth out of that flat-panel Ferrari.

    The Masters was first broadcast on television in 1956, when seven decidedly non-4K cameras covered the action on the final four holes. This year’s eye-melting DirectTV coverage will feature Amen Corner during all four rounds of tournament play (April 7-10, from roughly 10:30 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. EDT), and will be available to subscribers of DirectTV Ultimate and Premier packages. So although once more you won’t be strolling the hallowed grounds of Augusta National, washing down a pimento cheese sandwich with a cold sweet tea and ruminating on how grand it all is, take a moment to gaze lovingly at that big, beautiful 4K tv in the corner.
     
  8. Bill Lettang

    Bill Lettang Forum Resident

    hi...sorry I'm late...that motion fix article was great, and although I had to do a lot of re-search to understand a lot of it, it seems to have proven the most important factor when discussing any video (and audio I would think), and that's the numerous variables that are inherit in all the steps from start to finish, making it impossible to make any definitive judgement....only opinions subject to more variables..thanks!
     
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  9. EddieVanHalen

    EddieVanHalen Forum Resident

    I live in Spain but I have never had a region B Blu ray player so last April when I was on the market looking for a new and decent region B player (which of course being in Spain I can buy at any local shop) for my then unplayed UK Arrow Video BD's (8 of them) and match with my 42'' 4K T.V. I decided to give Samsung's UBD K-8500 4K player a chance. I must say I'm very happy with it. Now I can play my region B discs, and bought a few more of them (Eureka's Three Days Of The Condor, Fedora and Studio Canal The Conversation, all of them being better releases than their US counterparts) and also play the 14 UHD Blu ray discs I got,which I like how they look. For 400€ I got region B playing and future-proofing on my new movies purchasing as I am only buying UHD blu rays of new releases if available.
     
  10. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Senior Member

    Location:
    US
    I went to Fry's today to look at TVs. It's to the point now they're all good. I don't 4K looks that much better. Sure it looks great with the super demo discs the manufacturers make, but probably 95 percent of the films ever shot aren't going to benefit from it, that I can see.
     
  11. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    Maybe 95% of movies released prior to this year, but more and more movies are now being mastered in 4K/WCD/HDR, which means that the right kind of TVs which support UHD will look much better than TVs that do not. Certainly, going forward, more and more movies will be mastered for UHD and over time older popular films will likely be re-issued with all the bells and whistles too.
     
  12. The other issue is that many films even if they are shot in 4K are finished in 2K to save money.
     
  13. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    But I don't want my eyes melted! I need my eyes to make a living!

    That's not exactly true. They often finish them in 2K to save time. A great deal of the time, technicians are frantically working around the clock to make all the creative changes demanded by the filmmakers, and it takes a lot longer to make those changes in 4K than it does with 2K files. Bear in mind that 4K files are four times bigger than 2K files, not just twice as big. That means it takes quadruple the time for file copying, backups, and processing. And it's even worse for 3D, which requires two sets of files, one for each eye.

    For some summer blockbusters, they're still making last-minute fixes even a week to ten days before the premiere. My joke is, "you could have the entire film in 4K if you were willing to push back the release date 3 or 4 months." But the reality is that the number of films with end-to-end 4K workflows are still very small. You can do it if there aren't 1000 or more VFX shots. I've worked on 4K films myself where we had maybe 85 VFX shots, and we were able to do the entire project in true 4K and deliver 4K (and 2K and HD). But in that case, we didn't have an etched-in-stone release date, and the producer was willing to pay for a few more weeks of work.
     
    budwhite likes this.
  14. Bill Lettang

    Bill Lettang Forum Resident

    Vidiot, do you think 4K is necessary for the small drama films (like a To Kill a Mockingbird) or best applied to adventure, action films?
     
  15. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    4k is not 'necessary' for anything, it's just a good improvement towards the road of matching the acuity of the eye. But, if you have a crappy source, no amount of Ks will make it look any better. On the other hand, if the source material is high quality and you have a very big screen then a 4k display will be better for any type of content. Also bear in mind that 4k (resolution) by itself is only a minor benefit of the 4k UHD spec.
     
  16. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Since To Kill a Mockingbird was made in 1962, I'm not convinced the 1950s Eastman Double-X B&W negative and lenses used during that era were sharp enough to capture any detail over 2K (at the most). Above that frequency range, it's just noise and grain, it's not detail. (And I was at Cinesite when they did the 2K restoration of To Kill a Mockingbird for Universal; I'm pretty sure that was all done from fine-grains because there were some issues with the negatives.)

    But there is a visible difference for digital productions capturing at 4K vs. HD, provided the theater is projecting in 4K. It's not a gigantic difference, but it is one you can see. For films made prior to 1980 (maybe even 1990), I'm not sure there's any significant sharpness there. The possible exception would be Super-Panavision spherical 65mm films like Lawrence of Arabia, 2001 and My Fair Lady, which are still pretty sharp in 4K because of the massive size of the negative.

    The bottom line is I think it's reasonable to shoot any movie in 4K today, but the question is whether they're going to be able to do a complete end-to-end 4K workflow for all the effects and everything else. Even massive movies like Independence Day 2 were all done in 2K, and that was a $150M movie.
     
  17. Bill Lettang

    Bill Lettang Forum Resident

    thanks much Deesky and Vidiot.....very informative answers!
     
  18. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    Has there been that much of a break through in front projection to put it in the reference level picture quality category? When I was looking at them around the time the ZT came out the very high performance stuff was still damn expensive.
     
  19. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    Location:
    PARRISH FL USA
    Well, I have a VT60 ISF calibrated by the same traveling pro who did my front projector and I'd consider the image quality to be "reference". There are some very pricey projectors which are designed for huge screens, but the contrast won't even be as good as mine, for example. I was determined to learn how to set up a demo-quality experience and that requires a dedicated room covered in black velvet and a screen such as Stewart ST-100. I didn't want to be disappointed in the image. I am not. It is awesome to see 9' X 4' Scope or even 75" diagonal 1.33 or 92" 16:9.

    JVC has just announced the release of a true 4K projector with a hybrid laser light source as opposed to a lamp at $35,000. This is the future. Sure, I'm priced out by a long shot for now, but the tech is moving fast. I'm good for another 3 years anyhow, so this is really exciting.
     
    Vidiot likes this.
  20. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Yes, but you have to spend huge money to get that kind of quality in 4K. I'm not convinced it can be done for less than $50K. The theatrical laser 4K projectors start at $200K. JVC has generally been an "also-ran" in this category.
     
    hvbias likes this.
  21. vonseux

    vonseux Re-channeled Stereo

    Location:
    Portugal
    I'm just sad most people don't have the same "eye" for hi-res audio as they do with hi-res video
     
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  22. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    I looked up your projector's price that is in my expensive category, just not damn expensive :)

    Like most people my hurdle is spending so much knowing how quickly it will be out dated. I don't have that problem with audio where even current high end that I'm looking into (Vivid, ATC) is decades old technology that the manufacturers will support in case of break down/failure. Why do you think you'll need to replace it in three years?
     
  23. bababooey

    bababooey Forum Resident

    Location:
    Houston, TX USA
    I've had 2 3D TV's and I've yet to watch anything in 3D. Think it's been 5 years since the first one. I'm not anti 3D, it's just too much of a hassle.
     
    Gregory Earl likes this.
  24. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    That's because visual acuity is far more sensitive/discriminating than audio acuity. So called hi-res audio is pretty much indistinguishable from 'normal' 16-bit audio sampled at 256-320 kbps (setting aside tricks like surround sound and 'object based' sound).
     
    vonseux likes this.
  25. PNeski@aol.com

    [email protected] Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    thats not true ,4k is what should used for 35mm films
     
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