Which lead guitar parts did Brian Jones play on The Rolling Stones records?

Nonsense.

 

Hi Keith

 

What exactly is from cassette on Street Fighting Man? Interviews suggest half the track was, but the opening guitar (which is the most "lo-fi" portion of the track) is mixed right, and almost everything else, including the sitar, is mixed left or center. Anything recorded on (mono) cassette would necessarily come from the same point in stereo, which seems to point to that acoustic guitar being the *only* thing recorded that way, despite claims to the contrary.

What about Mellotron on Factory Girl?

 

Ah yes, it's the old "I don't like what you said, so I'll dismiss it as PC crap" routine.

I know you didn't literally call her property. I was making a joke, so I exaggerated your position a bit for the purposes of the joke. No need to be so sensitive. Point is, suggesting a girlfriend can be "stolen" most certainly does imply (at minimum) a limited decisional capacity on her part. I mean, if you chose to leave one relationship for another one, would you find it flattering if people said you had been stolen, as though you had no say in the matter? Saying "Keith stole Brian's girl" is kind of an Archie Comics view of the situation that trivializes a fairly complex and ugly situation involving a woman fleeing from emotional abuse and domestic violence. It also serves to divert blame from Brian and absolve him of responsibility for his own despicable actions in that relationship.

 

Ah yes, hiding behind the "it's a joke" routine.

A man/woman can be accused of stealing a lover from a friend, without it implying anything else but that man/woman being unloyal.

 

Depends on the type of blues; Keith did learn a lot of different blues from Brian, different than the Bo Diddley & Chuck Berry stuff he was already playing. The records Brian owned opened up Keith to many artists he hadn't listened to much... it's in more than one biography on the band.

 

The claim was not that Keith learned blues stuff from Brian, but that he learned "all the blues stuff" from Brian.

 

Yep, I know. One could argue, that Keith learned "real" blues from Brian, but already knew "Rhythm and Blues" stuff.

Semantics though.....I think it's generally accurate to say Brian taught Keith LOTS about the blues, but not all.

 

The cassette take of Pay Your Dues/Street Fighting Man features Keith on acoustic, Brian on sitar and Charlie playing his little trap kit adding basic beat. Everything else, including the clear drums etc etc is overdubs via the usual methods, no use of cassette recorder.

The cassette recording was available to listen to at Exhibitionism. Very revealing. Brian's sitar is buried in the thick of the distorted sound, but sometimes notes stick out on the tape, but not really on the finished track. It's kind of adding to the dense sound of the cassette recording.

The overdubbed tamboura is mixed right and is much clearer.

...

Well, the mandolin has been attributed to Dave Mason for years, not sure why though. Of course, that's been people thinking it's a real one and not the mandolin played on mellotron.

I asked Dave about his contributions to Beggars Banquet a few years ago, he only replied regarding Pay Your Dues/Street Fighting Man. (bass drum and shehnai).

Nicky Hopkins once said he suggested the fiddle, I wonder if he meant the mandolin/mellotron!?

 

I said nonsense in reply to someone claiming Keith learned ALL blues from Brian. That is plain nonsense.

They all learned of different blues artists etc from one another and others too.

 

Are you saying the cassette is mixed *left*? That doesn't seem to make sense, based on the fact that the opening guitar is mixed right and is the only thing that really sounds like it's from cassette.

 

So who plays the 'mandolin' part on 'Factory Girl'?

 

I'm fairly certain Brian didn't learn of any blues artists from Keith and MIck, at least, no body earth shattering.
Brian already knew Chuck and Bo when he met Keith, and he was well versed in the blues.

 

Haven't listened to it for awhile. Ignore my left and rights.

The cassette recording 100% features Keith (acoustic guitar), Brian (sitar) and Charlie (little trap kit). On the released recording Keith's acoustic is the most audible part of that cassette recording, Brian and Charlie just kind of add to the thickness or density of it. Charlie's trap kit rhythm is just a basic thing in the background of the cassette recording. Brian's sitar is caught up in the distortion of Keith's acoustic.

Everything else is overdubs via the usual professional recording studio ways, including another acoustic guitar and the big sounding drums/percussion.

 

I think you want this to be the case.

 

Take a pick from Dave Mason (credited for years with the part), Nicky Hopkins or possibly Brian, but no one involved has ever said, as far as I am aware, that Brian had any involvement in the recording of Factory Girl.

Who ever played it, definitely played it on a MKII mellotron using the mandolin sound.

 

Surely this appears to rule out Jones. He would have just played an actual mandolin, wouldn't he?

 

We used to play that in the high school group I played guitar in. We disbanded before 1971 -- before we hit the big time. I have played guitar intermittently for forty years or so, and the way I have played that riff has changed. It is not that hard technically, but most people, including me for a long, long time, play it different ways. About two years ago, I chanced upon a youtube video, and when I saw how it was played, it immediately came to me that that was THE correct way.

 

My point is that the opening guitar (mixed right) seems like it must have been from cassette, because:

1) It has a compressed/lo-fi sound.
2) It, and it alone, opens up the song.

Yet I'm not hearing any sitar or trap kit mixed right.

There's *clearly* sitar mixed left, but that means it's not on the same track as the opening guitar.

 

Poor Brian...can't even give his side of the story..

 

Just going by the facts, pooled together, and combining them with a bit of conjecture. I'm reading Paul Trynka's book this week, finished Laura Jackson's last week, after reading Life, Wyman's book and countless other Stones bios over the years.
Feel free to correct me with something I've missed, but I'm fairly certain I'm correct.

 

That "clearly" sitar is actually the tamboura.

 

Good to know. Is the sitar audible in the right channel after each chorus? I'm still not hearing any trap kit though.

 

The original instrumental mono cassette, was showed at Exhibitionism in London and it was possible to hear a direct dub from it. It had 2 instruments: Keith's acoustic guitar and Charlie's drums (the street-kit). That's it. All other elements was not present.

 

2 instruments?

Regardless, I can obviously hear the acoustic guitar, and I think the sitar, but I can't seem to hear anything from the trap kit on the final recording.