Transients and frequencies above 20 kHz

That and the ability to fit Mozart's 9th Symphony are urban myths. There is an article below touching on this, but there is (was) something about the how the length came about in the Phillip's website.
http://gizmodo.com/5729864/why-the-cd-is-74-minutes-long

 

Okay, I thought you were making a blanket statement before

 

Which is why I said "Don't quote me on this."

 

Touché

 

I think the problem is, some of those 50-year-old analog signals were recorded on old all-analog gear that sounded pretty sweet (although might or might not have been all that accurate - glory of tubes and all that). The problem with a lot of modern digital gear isn't the digital - it's that their analog bits and pieces either ain't too hot, or have unpleasant colorations even if they're overall more accurate than their vintage predecessors.

One of the things that made me realize this is how much I like a few early digital recordings made on that 3M digital deck, which had problems, especially with linearity. In spite of all that though I think records like Christopher Cross and The Nightfly sound glorious - crisp and clear without being sterile or harsh. From what I've read that deck had killer analog components, spare-no-expense kind of stuff, and I suspect that's as responsible for its performance as anything.

 

But then if you drag them down into the audible range, you still don't really know how they sound like up there, do you? That's like transporting a polar bear down to the equator, observing it being all miserable and then concluding that that is how polar bears must be like.

 

Thanks, nicely done. This is of course very different from a scenario where overtones(or noise) over 20kHz could be audible(or could not be audible).

 

Is there an advantage in using an ADC or DAC capable of 24bits when recording/playing 16bits?

 

Tubes and transformers. No software can ever sound exactly like a Fairchild 670.

 

No, but you can presumably tell if it's a high-pitched squealing noise or something that sounds like it might actually be coming from an instrument.

Of course, if it's early Maria Carey, I suppose it could potentially be both...

 

Good point!

I guarantee you that those early digital recordings were run through analog boards. The current digital remasters were almost certainly done with some analog steps in between, including tape.

Anyway, I don't have much to add, but this has been one of the most interesting debates on this forum in a loong time! Keep it coming, all!

 

A lot of your fellow engineers agree with you. And, you don't have to stop at just 15-years ago. I recall Bruce Swedien saying how much he (paraphrase) "disliked digital because of what it did to Michael Jackson's voice" on the "Bad" album. he said in 1988 that digital made his voice sound thin and weak, and i'm sure that is directly related to the midrange suckout you speak of.

AS far as hi-rez is concerned, I pick and choose what I think sounds better. Maybe it's because of the mastering, maybe it's because of the technology, I don't have access to the tapes themselves, so I can't know. But, i'm glad the option is there.

 

Myth.

 

Mozart's 9th Symphony is about 12 minutes long, and was written when he was 9 years old. Perhaps you mean Ludwig's 9th?

 

A colleague just demonstrated a string technique where you press really hard with the bow on the string, and you can get a note an octave below the open string fundamental frequency. Not sure what is going on at the vibrational level, but it sure was cool!

 

Yeah, that's what Mari Kimura does and among other things she writes, writes pieces around. I think you can do something similar overblowing on certain wind instruments.

 

Which is why I said "don't quote me on this".

 

Who has speakers that reproduce frequencies much higher than 20kHz?

 

Batman

 

Many modern audiophile speakers respond higher than 20kHz. Many quality phono cartridges do too.

 

can't hear it, don't care.....

 

My Audeze LCD-2 headphones have an extended frequency response out to 50 kHz
My DAC has a bandwidth of 1Hz-200KHz at -1dB
My headphone amp has a bandwidth of 1Hz to 1MHz+ at -1dB

I'm not saying I am hearing the effects of anything above 20 kHz (or even 16 kHz), but I could be.
I also don't believe the benefits I hear with high res are due to that extended response above 20 kHz being reproduced.

 

Who uses microphones that have any usable sensitivity above 20kHz?

Well, there's that, too.

 

Yup. The mic is quite an important part of the chain.