Seriously considering walking away from vinyl

I want to start this off by saying that I LOVE the sound of vinyl. I love making needle drops that sound amazing - much better than CD's. I love listening to these on my iPad at work and in the car, dithered down to 16/48 Apple Lossless. Even better from my iPad through my home system.

I have been slowly selling off my vinyl to help pay for my daughter's college tuition. However, I gave the records a final (often the first) play and recorded them in 32/96 for future cleanup before I sold them. I know I will eventually have to get rid of most of my collection to raise the funds we need to pay for college, but I paid for these titles, and I should at least get a good recording from them. Many are still unplayed, but I kept telling myself that someday I would have the time to listen to them.

However, lately my system (Rega P3 heavily modded with Groovetracer parts, Dynavactor 10x5, Heed Power Supply, Black Cube phono stage) used for needledropping has been nothing but problems. First, the mixer I use for recording volume control suddenly stopped working - then, after hours of looking for the problem, just suddenly worked again. Now, tonight I tried to 'drop a few records, and there is a loud buzz/hum coming through on my recordings. It wasn't there 2 weeks ago when I recorded my last batch of vinyl. More hours spent trying to find the issue. It is now after 11:00 at night, and the issue remains. It is incredibly frustrating that things work fine one minute, and not the next.

This has led me to ponder if it is all worth the trouble. The hours I have spent troubleshooting one problem after another, with no solution, could have been spent on countless other things. More important things.

I don't even know why I am writing this - it's not like I am looking for answers. I guess I just felt the need to vent to people who might understand. I know several forum members who have "thrown in the towel" on certain aspects of collecting. The time may have come for me to join them.

Thanks for listening. It felt good just to get this out of my system. Good night.

 

First, I'm going to predict that this will be moved to the Hardware sub-forum. Not a big deal, but apples-to-apples and all that.

Second, I'm where you are and with far less refined equipment or as compelling a reason to offload vinyl. On a certain level, the endless tweaking appeals and there is some fun to be had in troubleshooting, modifying, repairing, etc.... But then sometimes you just want to listen to some friggin' music (or get on with your life and do something else entirely). When I look at the real vinyl diehards, I see people who have an impressive level of knowledge and dedication to a hobby - not terribly unlike people who can rebuild stereo equipment or make ships in bottles or whatever. Thing is, that's not for everyone and, frankly, the 21st century gives music listeners so many options, you find yourself wondering why the less faithful would ever want to spend so much time on the "related activities" attached to vinyl playback. I suspect that's normal.

I'm just going to hazard a guess because I don't know you, but I imagine the work of getting hi-def vinyl transfers appeals to you in theory more than in practice. You clearly aren't wrestling with offloading wax to pay for your daughter's tuition, so it sounds more like you're caught between, "I spent all this money over the years on these records," and "They need to go and I have a reason to get rid of them." Personally, I think it's ok to just let them go, but your mileage may vary. It doesn't mean you've ditched out on music or that you'll never hear those bodies of work again. Choice is kind of the watch-word these days - well, unless you're sitting on a raft of "rarer than hens' teeth" recordings that never made the digital jump, in which case, archive away!

As for the problems you were describing, I've used exactly zero of the components you're describing, but it sounds like something's gone wonky in the power being supplied to one of the devices in your signal chain. That, or you've got a cable break somewhere and it's causing ground hum. Someone more knowledgeable may be able to help more directly on that front though.

I guess the bottom line I'd try to get across (if there is one) is that it's just stuff and if you're wrestling with yourself over whether you want to engage in a lot of hassle and labor for an end product that'll sit... Eh, maybe you're over the idea - and it's fine to walk away from a project that appealed to you more in theory than in practice. Just keep listening and keep enjoying in whatever way you can.

 

Why are you using an outboard mixer to digitize your vinyl?

 

Vinyl is such a pain in the ****, it's just part of the game I think. The cost of entry and maintenance (largely the cost of new vinyl and inflation for used vinyl) also makes it less attractive. The hardware side is also not as straightforward as it could be given that vinyl has been around for so long. I feel your pain!

 

Hey Chris, I remember you from the other thread where we tried to troubleshoot the problems with your levels.... When you unplugged everything and hooked it up again, did you forget to ground your TT? Remember that thing I said about tracing the signal path? Dont give up dude!

 

It's only a pain if you let it be. I stopped letting it be a long time ago. People will espouse the important of exact set up, spotless records, high priced cartridges, phono pre's, IC's, etc, etc etc. I was chasing that dragon for a long time when I got back into vinyl in the late 90's, after having gone the cd route in the mid 80's and selling off a large collection. I finally came to my senses and went back to simple equipment, basic set up and cleaning practices, and most of all, listening to the music and not the system. In other words, I went back to what had made so happy when I started buying and listening to records over 40 years ago, and I haven't looked back since.

The only pain for me is finding room for more records. Everything else is easy.

But this is not a criticism of those who choose to do all the things that I think can make vinyl complicated. To each his/her own. I would just advise that if you're finding it a hassle, take a step back and simplify. All that's really important is the music.

 

Yeah, it's a real PITA.

I mean...here I am on the 41st year of flawless operation of my Empire 698 turntable, what a PITA, having to oil the spindle & a new belt once every 5 years.

Been a real PITA.

 

Yeah,vinyl records require an extraordinary amount of messing around.

CDs sound too hard and bright.

MP3 sound quality is diabolical and gives you a headache.

I tell you,I've just about had it with audio equipment in general.It always lets you down.

I'm going back to reading books and not electronic ones.

I'm gonna get out my ukulele and try to play it.

 

Don't bother, too much work. Might have to tune it.

 

I have a Rega - no ground cable that I am aware of... I wish it was that easy!

 

I needed something to control the recording level. Some pressings just came in too loud without it. Come to think of it, I might be able to control it in the sound card controls, which would allow me to remove it from the chain. Hmmm... Let me try that - maybe it's the $%&# mixer that is causing the hum?

 

It's only a pain if you let it be one. I like the sense of being involved with the process.
Going out and bringing home some new finds, cleaning them up and playing them.
Vinyl doesn't have to be as complicated as some make it out to be. I don't obsess over VTA's, cables or platter mat's, but if you do it's all good if you enjoy doing it.

I don't needledrop so that may be a whole new level of involvement, but if it gives you some enjoyment no big deal.

OP, you are fortunate that you can help your daughter in this way. I don't know of a solution to your problem but hope you get it sorted out quickly.

 

Well, maybe you should tackle total turntable isolation sometime ?

 

That debacle was actually an interesting experiment that I leaned quite a bit from, and in the end ended up with better sound, but yeah...I did let it get out of hand and turn into a PITA for a few weeks.

 

Needledropping is definitely not worth the trouble as far as I'm concerned. I mean, there's almost no chance that I, an amateur with consumer or prosumer grade recording equipment digitizing a recording from a record as a source (and I do have a home demo recording studio in my music room and some studio experience so I'm not wholly clueless) -- with all it's attendant mechanical noise and vibration -- is going to do a better job coming up with a digital master than a pro working from the original master with the best equipment in the world making a digital master.

Plus, any kind of transfer from one form to another is just another step away from fidelity. To me, if I want to listen to music that I have on vinyl, I'll sit down and listen to a record; if I want to listen to music I have on CD, I'll sit down and listen to a CD; if I want to listen to music on a digital download file, well, I avoid for the most part at this point. I found I don't much engage with music on digital files the way I do with music on physical media, and I find it almost as much of a pain in the ass to rip CDs, store the files somewhere, transfer 'em to a mobile device, make playlists, etc, as it is to make a recording from a record, but if it's something I only have that way or if I'm on an airplane or at the gym or something, I'll play the digital file from a portable. And I'll let the pros do the mastering.

In terms of vinyl itself being a pain. It certainly can be. And it's certainly more of a pain than digital -- in terms of set up, in terms of storage, in terms of maintenance. But I don't know that the OP's problems are peculiar to vinyl. First he had a problem with his mixer (or maybe his cables or something), not a vinyl problem. They he had hum. Well, yeah, you can have hum, phono carts can be particularly good at picking up noise from environmental sources, and often you can wind up with ground hum connecting a stereo to a computer rig, but in the latter case that's not necessarily a vinyl thing either.

 

To me, vinyl is like a train set. We lay the track and deal with all of the loose pins and try to get it to all match up all around then the engine and cars get placed on it. The wheels all need to be put on the track properly then we hook a nice big transformer to the track and fire it up.

We add more cars and accessories to make it bigger and more interesting but the more things we add, the more things can go wrong.

I'm not sure how many women are in the audio circle, but it seems like boys like to get their hands into all things electrical and mechanical. It continues into manhood but as we grow older, we lose the desire to deal with some things which make us continue to diagnose all the time.

It goes with things like relationships too, I suppose. But then, that's another topic.

Listening to vinyl doesn't have to involve so much in terms of gear. But, that's all up to the individual. We can make it hard for ourselves or try to be less critical of what we're attempting to achieve.

Maybe just an engine, coal car and a caboose?

 

Why are you so obsessed with needledrops? Just play the records and enjoy them. You're needlessly complicating things.

 

Nice Analogy

I'd say Vinyl is like driving a restored '66 Ford Mustang and enjoying it.

Other people just like having a new Prius.

 

I like your views. I've needle dropped about five LP's. They were out of print Bob Seger and Perez Prado. They sound great and it's nice to have them available to listen to in the digital format.

But there's a lot more to playing records (to me) than other formats. Maybe it comes from growing up with them but I think it goes deeper than that. We probably all agree that there's more to analog sound than we can put our fingers on. But, whatever it is, it's really there. I'm not sure I would want to remove my turntable set-up. I went without it for several years, but when I got back into it, it was like finding a long time friend.

I'm glad I was told about this forum too. I've learned more about so many things if otherwise I wasn't part of it. It's like a support group in some aspects.

 

I like both... which is why I listen to vinyl and drive a new Prius.

 

That's what I've always thought. How on earth is a digital transfer from a consumer source going to best a professional transfer from the original source!? Spin the vinyl records or buy digital.

Anyhow, fortunately there are more digital options than ever before at all price points.

Finally, I wonder how many members make a private copy of a vinyl record or CD/SACD for themselves and then sell the original. Ugh.

 

Back to the OP's predicament...

I suspect the mixer is the source of your woes. Find another way to level the input.

 

I too have been moving away from vinyl although I doubt I'll ever give it up completely.
The reason, the easier it is to play music , the more music I listen to.
The last CD player I purchased was so good that I rarely find the need to fire up one of my analog rigs.

 

I mean, I grew up in the vinyl era and have thousands of records on LP and 45 that I'm unlikely to ever replace, so, I play records a lot. But I've very rarely bought new vinyl in the last 20 years. I'm perfectly happy choosing digital and convenience for new music, especially new music that's recorded and mastered digitally in the first place. And I'd never counsel a young person interested in hifi to start with vinyl -- it's definitely much more expensive to get a good sounding vinyl rig than a good sounding digital rig; there are mechanical sources of noise and vibration and levels of tracking distortion that you'll never entirely do away with with vinyl that are none existent with digital; and storing records by the thousands is an incredible problem. If someone things vinyl is a pain and not worth it, I wouldn't try to convince them otherwise.

I love LPs and vinyl, but I think the romantic glory of vinyl and analog on the one hand, and the icy horrors of digital on the other, are both enormously overstated. And I'm completely mystified by the attraction of needledropping. Sure, if there's something that's out of print and you want to listen to it on the go or preserve the original disk from wear.....but I tried that some years ago with some old Sun Ra Saturns and, being old Sun Ra Saturns, the pressing were so bad, it just just a pain and the ultimate file all that useful. Eventually it turns out someone came along with access to the masters and did new mixes for digital with access to stereo versions that were never available before, and even in less than state of the are masterings and on lossy digital formats, they're enormously better than even the old Saturns on vinyl, and certainly better than my attempts to transfer my Saturn LPs to digital.

But to me the OP's problem sounds like it's less on of a problem with vinyl per se, and more of a problem with needledropping and the needledropping setup.

 

I started with vinyl in about 1954-5 and backed away from it in 2003. It was a mistake I regret on a daily basis, and over the past 13 years have been playing catch up. For the OP and any of you, think long and hard before you depart. I'm very happy to be back where I am - a modest system and just plain enjoying what I'm hearing.