Stubborn gunk build-up on stylus...even with regular cleaning!

So I recently acquired a USB microscope, generally just to check VTA/SRA. When I set it up I discovered that despite what I thought was pretty regular cleaning with Zerodust, and the little stiff-bristled carbon fiber stylus brush (occasionally with LP9 liquid) there was still quite a build up of something around the stylus where it bonds to the cantilever. I had been getting less than optimal tracking lately on some records...all used, but I am still wondering if this has anything to do with it, even though it's only at the top of the stylus. The strange thing is this crud is so baked on I can't even get it off with the stiff-bristled brush and the LP9. Any ideas?

 

Anybody? A forum search just yields recommendations for the same things I've been doing. I haven't tried Magic Eraser, but I don't think that would be any more effective than the Zerodust or brush...this stuff is really caked on. Not sure how so much could build up like that given I regularly clean the stylus after every side.

 

I saw someone post an ultrasonic device for the stylus. Im wanting one as it seems better than using a brush.

Edit* FLUX HiFi Sonic - electric needle cleaner works wonders »

 

i would think magic eraser could help, it is much more abrasive than zerodust and should be able to get most gunk off. I think that "sonic" cleaner has been somewhat discredited.

Are you sure the gunk was not on there before? is it part of the adhesive that holds the stylus to the cantilever? any pics to compare with?

 

This is where the ME comes in, I don't use it every side or even every session, but I check my stylus with a loupe frequently while playing, and after a session, I will periodically use the ME.
You just have to be careful and follow the usual cautions (the ME is like little tangles of fibre, up close, and you don't want to snag the stylus or bend the cantilever), including brushing after the use of the ME, since it can leave abrasive particles. I do dry brush after every side, and also use the Zero gunk, but it doesn't remove the melted-on stuff. The ME will, and does an even better job if you stay on top of it regularly.

 

I think what you see is just the glue that bonds the stylus to the cantilever. I've seen pictures like this (and worse) many times before.

 

Good question...maybe it is? Would Clearaudio be that sloppy?

 

I would not recommend to remove the glue, there is a chance the needle will fall off; because it is glue.

 

Good point. Here is a photo of another Clearaudio stylus from another site, scroll down: Cartridge Close-Ups - Show Your Shots! - Page 107 - Vinyl Engine »

 

Thanks. I'll try the Magic Eraser.

 

A-ha!

 

Yes! Didn't realize that's just a big blob of glue! Thanks all.

 

Welcome!

 

Hello Snorker,
I have seen this type of crusty, concrete-like buildup on many styli. Being that I restore vintage turntables, I sometimes include the original stylus if it shows no sign of wear or suspension fatigue.

The cause is the record cleaning fluid you are using. Every time you use your Zerodust brush, lightly dampened, a small amount of liquid is transferred to the groove walls. This liquid residue has the tendency to combine with dust and form a "sludge" on the groove wall. Contrary to how clean the record appears, the brush leaves MOST of the dust and particles in the groove. Just because we see SOME dust on the brush does not mean the record is clean.

The evidence is on your stylus. Not only do we see the evidence of crud, but it is hard like concrete. So it is also on the groove walls of your record. The residue is sparsely distributed, however with every "cleaning" with any cleaning brush, the residue buildup increased, noise increases, and groove damage and wear is the ultimate result. The stylus plows through all this sludgy crud. Dry particles are less damaging as the stylus tends to "kick" them aside.

The most effective method for cleaning your stylus is by using stylus cleaning fluid (Many hifi enthusiasts use liquid for the records but not for the stylus, we need to do the opposite) Any recommended stylus cleaning fluid should do the job. The stylus may require repeated cleanings to dissolve the crud. Personally I have used 91% isopropyl alcohol with great success, and have never encountered any effect on the epoxy, nor "creeping" up the cantilever to the suspension parts.

Use a 45/45 degree pattern back to front, better to use a sharper angle of 60/60 degrees. There will be some side to side deflection of the cantilever as you clean the stylus. This is normal, and will not harm the cantilever and the suspension. Be gentle. I like to do this with the amp ON the volume turned down to hear as well as feel what the brush is doing.

We no longer need a record cleaning brush. The old method of record cleaning does not work well. I suggest a record cleaning machine. For a new record, just one cleaning is ok with a cleaning brush (breathe on it to humidify) just to remove any loose dust. The record should be stored in a new audiophile sleeve, kept dust free, and NOT cleaned regularly by any cleaning brush. If noise gradually develops from repeated play, simply clean the record on a cleaning machine, slip into a new audiophile sleeve... play the record, no cleaning formality, return to sleeve. Your record collection will sound better, your stylus will seldom need any cleaning.

The cleaning methods I recommend is based upon my lifetime of experience in vinyl, and tech repair of vintage turntables.

Summary:
Stylus clean--- use fluid (dry cleaning ok for loose dust accumulation)
Record clean---- no fluid no brush, If it needs cleaning use a record cleaning machine, the record will remain perfectly clean through dozens of playings. For loose dust, a few bursts of "dust it" takes care of it.

rock on,
Steve VK

 

Thanks Steve. Good advice. I must say that what you suggest is exactly what I've done. I clean every record—old and new—on a VPI 16.5 with MoFi Enzyme Plus, followed by a rinse with their Pure rinse. After every side I use the Zerodust and after every session of a few records I use the stiff-bristled brush, and every few sessions I use the LP#9 liquid stylus cleaner with it. I've even used your technique—I must have seen it in another post you made (thanks!).

That's why I was so surprised when I saw the stylus under a microscope for the first time. I actually did take it to a local Clearaudio dealer today, who took it to the vintage repair guy with whom he has some affiliation. He cleaned it under a real microscope as well as it could possibly be cleaned...still that blob is there.

@Bill Hart above posted a link to a photo of this Clearaudio cartridge which has a nearly identical look:



At this point I must conclude that it's just the method that Clearaudio uses to bond the stylus to the cantilever, odd as it seems.

EDIT: I just re-read your post...just to clarify, are you suggesting that liquid cleaner should not be used with the record cleaning machine? Or just that records don't really need cleaning on it unless they're really dirty? Thanks.

 

Yes, this appears to be excess epoxy, although this is very, very excessive. (I would not rule out sludge just yet) I'd need to see other photos of a Clearaudio stylus to know for sure. Maybe you could email the manufacturer with this photo attached?

 

I recently tried dipping a cheaper stylus into blu-tak as recommended by Soundsmith with great results. I'm going to try it with my AT150MLX later this evening.

 

Not a bad idea. I just can't imagine what else I could do at this point to clean it if it's not epoxy.

 

I agree. It would be interesting to see what the manufacturer says. The photo I found of another CA stylus- not even sure it is the same type of cartridge--see post #9 above, does show a similar build up between the top of the stylus and the cantilever, but maybe that one wasn't well cleaned either....

 

I wouldn't go crazy if it isn't kludging up the business end of the stylus. As Missan pointed out earlier, you don't want to do anything that messes with whatever adhesive might be used to bond the stylus to the cantilever, but it would be interesting to get CA's take on it, as well as their cleaning recommendations. I check mine with a jeweler's loupe, not as powerful as a digital microscope- but sufficient to see the stylus pretty clearly. And the ME does do a good job in removing the crud that dry brushing and the goop type cleaners can't. I can post the instructions on use if you don't have them. Doug Deacon originated the use of ME for stylus cleaning as far as I know, in posts on Audiogon (and elsewhere) back in 2004 or so. Let us know what the manufacturer says. My stylus shape and the way it is attached to the cantilever is entirely different from yours. I don't have a very good photo but can take one--I have a few microscopes here, but found the whole process of trying to set SRA by microscope really frustrating.

 

Steve- the only caution I would add is that some cartridge manufacturers--Ortofon comes to mind--warn against using any liquid stylus cleaner. I think if there is a question about it, manufacturer advice should be sought. I know Lyra provides a liquid cleaner for its cartridges and perhaps a few others do as well. (I don't know about CA). I have also gotten away from dry brushing records, and use a Giotto Rocket Blaster to get rid of surface lint on a record after it has been properly cleaned and re-sleeved.
best,
bill hart

 

Yes, a good point, Ortofon IMO should consider using a waterproof or resistant epoxy. Most water soluble materials are not petrol soluble. In the case of an Ortofon stylus, Naptha may be safe, but this needs to be approved by the manufacturer. Naptha is a generally safe solvent, but care to not expose to sparks or flame.

 

I don't know what the glob of glue says about Clearaudio's manufacturing process. So it's not set into the cantilever?

 

I missed your post Bill, my bad on that. Yes, the other stylus appears to be set in a massive amount of epoxy. This is more epoxy than any other nude mounted stylus I have seen. Most styli are set in a flange or hole with only a small amount of epoxy. The "crud" in the other photo appears clean and light in color. Crud is usually dark or darker... and the Op's photo is a little darker, thus appears more like "crud" deposit. At this point, this appears to be epoxy in both photos. I should have looked more carefully.

 

You are a great contributor here Steve. And we should give a nod to td 320_vinylist, a new member who first suggested that it may be adhesive.