Before The Dawn With Kate Bush To Get Digital Audio,CD, & LP Release In December

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by belardd, Sep 22, 2016.

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  1. Raf

    Raf Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Just finished playing this album for the first time. Wow. I am simply blown away by the staggering amount of good music here. What a great artist Kate Bush is, and what a great person.
     
  2. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe RIP Vickie Mapes Williams (aka Equipoise)

    That's been one of our favorite longer Kate videos. I particularly enjoy the part at 14:30, with the Scottish sound engineer Gordon "Gungi" Paterson talking about the headset microphone he built for Kate. Gungi died in 2009 and he was a beloved legend in the sound community for his skill, his personality and his 6' 11" height (it must have been a sight to see him with Kate who is a hair over 5'.) After The Tour of Life, he mixed acts as varied as Tears for Fears and Fiona Apple to Megadeth and Judas Priest, but his system check song remained Babooshka.
     
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  3. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    CD or vinyl?
     
  4. bluemooze

    bluemooze Senior Member

    Location:
    Frenchtown NJ USA
    Huh?
     
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  5. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    A quick note. I just got done finishing listening to the CD. It's one of the best recorded live albums I have ever heard. I get that the bass could overwhelm some systems. My system has a tendency toward warm in the lower midrange anyway, but the bass was rarely too much. It really made me sense more that I was there (though I recall one poster who was at one of the concerts saying that there was more high end sparkle in the mix at the show itself.). I don't know for sure, but it seems as if the record was created with better systems in mind, for the highest common denominator rather than the lowest. I'd be curious to hear it on a VERY high end well-designed system to better ascertain how good the bass really is.

    I'll acknowledge that the density of some of the music can clog the soundstage a bit, but that's almost always a characteristic of CDs in my experience (And I'm listening through a Rega Saturn). But this CD has dynamics to spare, and gets very powerful. Tonality is extremely natural and spot on. Even cymbals have a fairly natural sheen and decay, though perhaps not the way a good vinyl record does. For a CD, it's really quite good.

    Having read the few comparisons between the CD and vinyl copies previously posted, I'm not surprised that the vinyl is better. And it's in the usual places where vinyl does shine. If the LPs are as well done as the posters here have said, there will be an ease and air to the music and soundstage that is only hinted at on the CD.

    At the end of LP sides, I'm sure the advantages of vinyl are lessened, but at the beginning of each side through the middle, the advantages of the LPs will likely be there.

    Of course one of the big advantages to the CD set is uninterrupted sides. Each Act (of which there are 3) are presented as Kate Bush wanted them. It allows for an immersion into the music. And the music was enthralling, exhilarating, and exhausting. It was my first experience with much of the music in Act II and III. My wife and I both listened, and the only thing I said to my wife when it over was that it must have been an amazing experience to have been there. And she agreed.

    I do plan to get a copy on vinyl, but will be looking for a particularly good price.

    My CD copy, by the way, arrived from Amazon merely in a padded envelope, with no stiffeners or protection around the CD set, which is a cardboard foldover cover. The cardboard cover was squashed. The CDs themselves were fine. But why would anyone send a CD with such little protection. It will be going back for an exchange (or I'll just return it and get this on vinyl).
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2016
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  6. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe RIP Vickie Mapes Williams (aka Equipoise)

    I just finished listening to the whole album with my wife. Neither of us wanted to hear it without the other, so we had to wait until I returned home to Chicago and we were together this evening. We almost weren't able to. I went to Reckless Records on Broadway to pick it up, and they were sold out. I called the other one on Milwaukee, and they were sold out as well. I called a couple of other places, and finally called Laurie's Planet of Sound in Lincoln Square, and they had two left. I got the woman who answered the phone to hold one till I could get there, and luckily she did.

    By the time I got home with the CD, it was 9:30 and too late to give it the volume it required, so we wound up listening together to the discs via headphones - Vickie on a pair of Sony's and me via the Sennheiser HD 280 Pros I use for my concert work. We laid in bed, holding hands, remembering the concert, smiling at each other, hugging at times, relishing how lucky we were to have met all these years ago and shared the experience.
     
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  7. ryno

    ryno Forum Resident

    So what did you think of the album after your first listen Chris?
     
  8. Neonbeam

    Neonbeam All Art Was Once Contemporary

    Location:
    Planet Earth
    What exactely did you find so offputting, the interpretation or the sonics??? Still haven't heard it but my vinyl is ready for pickup. If I don't like it, this is going straight into thE bay, thankfully not hard to unload:righton::righton::righton:
     
  9. imarcq

    imarcq Men are from Mars, I'm from Bromley...

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Something not yet mentioned is that the mastering credits on the vinyl are slightly different in that Bernie Grundman is involved. If you are a vinyl fan you will know that is a very good thing to see. :)
     
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  10. imarcq

    imarcq Men are from Mars, I'm from Bromley...

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    You won't want to send it back! I have a feeling he may have been referring to the Tawny Moon track rather than the whole BTD album. :) That's why he mentioned having the option to delete (that particular track) ;)
     
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  11. moomaloo

    moomaloo All-round good egg

    I'm really enjoying my vinyl copy. Truly stunning.

    But... As someone who didn't manage to get a ticket to the shows and, like many of us, thought there would be a DVD, is there anywhere on the 'net where someone has attempted an accurate and detailed written description of what was going on song by song during the show..? Reading about it will have to do I guess.
     
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  12. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic

    Can someone else listen to "Waking the Witch" on either vinyl or CD and tell me that the bass doesn't overpower everything to the point of making the whole thing sound congested and almost distorted? It almost sounds "loudness war"-y but I realise that the album isn't brick walled.

    I'd love to join in the "this sounds amazing" chorus but it sounds the same on every piece of equipment I've tried it on- and even sounded the same when I was in a record store yesterday with a decent system with large speakers.

    I'd agree that the quiet bits sound amazing but the loud sections of Ninth Wave and Sky of Honey let the side down a bit-to my ears. And I don't rule out that my ears are shot, by the way.
     
  13. moomaloo

    moomaloo All-round good egg

    Hi LF. It is very bassy but it stops just short of overwhelming everything else on my system (Rega RP6 etc). It has a visceral power to it which I find wholly engaging.

    Just listened to Act II again this morning (very loud indeed...). A truly staggering piece of work. I really wasn't prepared for just how moving I found it. Really emotional.... It's a good job there no one else here today...!

    Utterly magnificent. Best release of the year. No question at all (other than Blackstar I suppose....).
     
  14. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    As I suggested before, that congestion during dense passages is a bit of a product of CDs. It never sounded distorted. Just a bit grainy, perhaps. But unlike some loud CDs that just sound flat, this one kept some depth.

    So I'm not saying that this is perfect. The only CDs I know that sound great are beautifully recorded and relatively simple, with lots of dynamic range.

    Nils Lofgren's Acoustic Live is one example. Shirley Horn's You're My Thrill is another.
     
  15. ryno

    ryno Forum Resident

    Here's a thread on the Homeground forum describing what was going on on stage during each song http://thehomegroundandkatebushnews...scription-t-attend-SPOILER-HEAVY#.WDr_qrKLSM8
     
  16. moomaloo

    moomaloo All-round good egg

  17. moomaloo

    moomaloo All-round good egg

    Terrific read that... Thanks again. Oh how I wish I'd seen it....
     
  18. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic

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  19. rich100

    rich100 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Middle of England
    In Cloudbusting, at one point I'm sure I hear her ask for the audience to join in, which when I was there I'm pretty sure we were all doing the yayee yayee yo's at full volume, but can barely hear the audience at all.
     
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  20. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic

    Ok, I get that, but it doesn't sound significantly different on vinyl, to me. Or it didn't on a quick listen, anyway. I could do a proper A/B test later I guess...
     
  21. karmaman

    karmaman Forum Resident

    sorry, my response was specifically and only about the "song" Tawny Moon, not the entire show. CD has great dynamics and for headphone listening the EQ choices are not bad at all, but i can understand those who wish for a little more life in the top end. it's consistent with 50 Words For Snow and Director's Cut in regard to sonics.
     
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  22. skyjelly

    skyjelly Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lisbon, Maine
    I ended up buying the CD set yesterday. My decision was fueled by reviews on this thread, and the thought of having to flip Lp sides during the Ninth Wave and Sky of Honey suites. The vinyl set sure looks tempting, but I have no buyer's remorse with the CD at all.
    Having heard a couple of the audience recordings that circulate, I honestly wasn't overly excited for this set when I heard there would be no visual document released. I couldn't see myself playing this more than a couple of times when I have so much love for the studio versions of Ninth Wave and SOH. That opinion has changed. I am thrilled at how great this set is and will certainly be playing it more than I anticipated. Already I think "Joanni", "Top Of The City" and "King Of The Mountain" are going to be my go-to versions of those songs. Really, apart from some spoken bits and the Witch Hunter, I can't complain about this release at all. Even the "Tawny Moon" on here is actually not a bad performance, but it still ruins the flow of SOH for me (and part of that is certainly due to how ingrained SOH is in my brain).
    As for how it sounds on my system? Very good, just shy of great. My system is pretty forgiving, and my speakers can handle low lows and high highs, while still putting out a well-balanced sound. RUTH and Waking the Witch definitely put out some heavy bass, but it didn't murky-up the mix to my ear. I also love the lack of compression. I can turn this up (which really does open it up sonically), without any fatigue.
    The only real let down I'm experiencing is that now I, and all Kate fans, most likely have a long wait to hear something new from her!
     
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  23. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    Okay, but now this also gets into discussion of equipment (And I know these types of discussions can get touchy).

    A record which is as dynamic as this one appears to be can overwhelm a budget system. One of the things that better turntables, cartridges, and amplification can do is to take bigger, denser passages and resolve them, allowing them open up and bloom. With lesser systems, it will overwhelm them and distort. It's why many pop and rock records have lower dynamic range.

    My Rega Saturn CD player (with 3 internal power supplies) is FAR more capable of rendering dense and dynamic passages than than my previous Rega Planet. The resolution of the louder and denser passages and the real bloom in the soundstage is one of the things the Saturn ($3000) does much better than the more budget priced Apollo ($1100). Once while in Natural Sound in Framingham, MA, I heard the Rega Planar 1, 2 and 3 turntables. Playing the same record (a copy of Holst's The Planets, quite a dynamic work of music), the Planar 1 sounded pleasant; the Planar 2 had more lower end solidity; the Planar 3 rocked the music. With the Planar 3, the louder denser passages were freed up. They breathed and pulsated and got fuller and bigger. It was dramatic how different the 3 was to the lower two turntables (though the 3 had a much better cartridge - the Benz Glider while the other two had Benz Silver cartridges on them, which makes a difference for sure). It told me how constricting the lower end turntables were to the music. As I went up the ladder in amplification quality in my own system, I discovered the same thing.

    Looking at your system profile, it's possible that this record is testing the limits of your system. You have a Technics 1210M3D, an Ortofon Blue (2M, I presume), a ProJect Phono Box, and an Marantz 5006 receiver. That's a perfectly fine budget system. But it's not going to be nearly as good at handling THE most dynamic or dense passes. That's just the nature of the beast.

    I have cited my conversation with Steve Hoffman about the necessity of limiting the dynamics of a record intended for the masses as opposed as one for audiophiles (and then there are different levels of audiophiles). The final product of his work on Eva Cassidy's Songbird album for S&P needed to be altered. I have a test pressing of it, and he actually likes my copy better than the final product. Why? Because S&P told him that he needed to tame the dynamics because what he had initially produced was overwhelming too many average quality turntables and systems. My test pressing copy will sound better on better systems, but will overwhelm lesser ones.

    In the case of Before The Dawn, that big bass is going to be there, and so are all of those dense, dynamic passages. How your system deals with resolving all of that will determine whether it sounds great or muddy and congested. Listening to the CD, while there's some congestion, the bass isn't too overwhelming and I can hear through it. "Running Up That Hill" has a lot of bass, but it's not really weighing it down that much. But a few posters here have said that it does in their systems.

    I also think of the 3LP set of Cream's reunion live album recorded at Madison Square Garden. Stan Ricker was asked to master and cut the LP. He agreed to do it only if he could do it without limitation. Stan Ricker (RIP) was a bassist. There is TONS of bass on the 3LP set. There were complaints that it overwhelmed many systems. The CD (and DVD video) was much more restrained. On my system, there IS tons of bass, but the LP has the presence of being there in MSG. I can hear past and around the bass. The rest of the sound/music is still open and transparent. But I also thought while playing it initially that my previous phono stage wouldn't have resolved all the dynamics and bass, and it would have likely just overwhelmed the system. I don't listen to it and think "Too much bass", but I could understand that those with more budget systems would complain.

    Th Before The Dawn CD is probably the most demanding rock/pop CD on a system I have ever heard.

    I think if the midrange is really allowed to open up and bloom via the LP, the way I think it can through my analog rig (It's a much better rig compared to my digital one), it should be a much better experience.
     
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  24. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    And if I can add to the above slightly off-topic post.

    My first experience with high end amplification was a used Cyrus 8 integrated I got from a local audio retailer. I contacted Cyrus/Mission in Canada and they built me a separate power supply made for the Cyrus 8.

    I was absolutely blown away by the huge, explosive dynamics that the amp brought to everything I played. I had no idea that my records could play that dynamically.

    My current integrated, a modified Unison Research Unico, is sweeter and capable of more nuance, but is a bit less dynamic. That Cyrus was almost all muscle. But everything before that Cyrus, in hindsight, sounded tame and lame.
     
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  25. SergioRZ

    SergioRZ Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Portugal

    I really liked hearing the Unison Research Unico, great amp :)

    Want raw power with insane speakers control? Look for a used NAD S300 (Silverline Series) integrated stereo amp, it's quite impressive... until it burns out :D
     
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