Ripping SACDs

Nice work. This place is amazing to me sometimes!

 

Sure. I must admit that it no longer comes cheap. While there was hope that SACD would succeed as a physical medium, there were many players competing in this market. Recently, that market has dried up and now it begins with the Oppo 103 and goes up from there. Still, the answer is that there are players that will convert directly from DSD to analog and there are DSD-capable DACs for those, like me, who play DSD files.

 

Well, there are a few that can convert to analog (not many though - although some of Sony's Blu-ray players will also output native DSD or PCM-converted streams over HDMI), but I don't think there are many if any receivers that'll perform processing of the native DSD signal without converting it to PCM first. So if you want bass management or room EQ or whatever, you're going to PCM first regardless (or even running thru an extra step of re-digitizing analog from the SACD player/outboard DAC to PCM).

 

Yup, as I stated above. In fact, the only program I know of that is supposed to do these things as DSD is HQPlayer.

 

I'm kinda surprised Sony's top-of-the-line receivers don't do native DSD processing. But they sorta abandoned the audiophile market about 10 years ago (although they seem to be trying to step back into it a bit).

 

I don't think they view AVRs as part of the audiophile market which they address with the HAPZ1ES and their ES speakers/

 

Yes, sorry, I was assuming for this purpose that the file was going to end up in PCM. What I meant to say was, if you're going to end up with a PCM file, then to the best of my knowledge there's no difference in accuracy using the PS3 method or the de-embedding method.

 

What version is the PS3 program up to now..?


Having trouble with the ap "way out west"

 

I think you can buy an inexpensive Pioneer player that permits direct ripping of SACDs for equal or less than the price of the CYP AU11-SA. FWIW.

 

That's good info, wolfcub. As Kal says, other methods have more recently emerged. But the laser drop method may still suit some and I still use it myself, since I'm already set up for it.

 

Kal thanks for this. A quick Google search led me to the ComputerAudiophile site where I discovered me Oppo BDP-103 is one of the players supporting this method. It's much better than using my de-embedder for backing up my SACDs. Not only is it bit-perfect DSd without having to fidn an old PS3 player, it also supports multichannel DSD, something the de-embedder doesn't. Moreover, it doesn't require recording a disc during playback at 1x speed. A 2-channel SACD takes only a few minutes to back up and a mutlichannel one not that much longer, certainly much quicker than recording from the de-embedder. I've already ripped several SACDs without a glitch. So thanks. This has been a game changer for me.

 

The discovery definitely changed the game for SACDs. It's much easier finding a compatible player than hunting down an obscure PS3 with older firmware.

 

Yes, this is huge - and since I have an Oppo BDP-105, I was overjoyed too when news of this came out a few months ago. It's super-easy, and unlike the PS3, the Oppos (and the Pioneers) don't overheat when doing the ripping.

And yes, much better to get a bit-perfect copy that can be converted to PCM later (if you want or need), than to be restricted to a PCM version that has to be essentially recorded in real-time.

 

Plus the Oppos support DSF playback so it's possible to use the free program ISO2DSD at Sonore - Home » to convert ISO to DSF files of the individual songs then write them to a data disk or USB stick for playback. Last time I checked it still wasn't possible to stream such files through a network connection, but I did confirm that DSF files written to a blank DVD play back so in effect, one has a playable DSD disk. However, since I'm a great believer that it's the mastering not the format that makes the audible differences, I have no problem with conversion to PCM to create files for playback through my home network. The Foobar SACD playback component combined with the excellent SOX resampling component are tremendous for converting these ISOs to PCM files for playback in the car or wherever.

It just occurs to me that this sort of capability makes me want to buy more SACDs, so it's yet another example of why rigid copy protection is counterintuitive.

 

Loving it!!! Ripped about a half dozen last night in both Stereo and multichannel. Nary a glitch!!! Now I have to start locating new SACD's.

 

Great points - and that ISO2DSD program is IMHO also the best app to use to do the actual ripping - I find it much easier than the command-line method.

As for burning a DVD with DSF files on it, are you saying you burn it as a data disc and the Oppo plays the files, basically as if you'd inserted a USB thumb drive with DSF files? Or are you saying you can actually "author" the DVD disc in a way that allows you to basically insert the DVD and just press Play as if it were a music disc of some kind?

 

Hey I didn't realize ISO2DSD could be used to do the actual rip. I thought it was just for converting the songs stored in a previously ripped ISO to DSF. I shall have to explore more this evening!

I just wrote them as data files and used the menu on the Oppo to play the files. It's something I plan to do anyway as using Foobar to play back the DSF files or even from an ISO directly is fine for me. I have decent Burr-Brown converters in my receiver and both HDMI and Optical digital outputs from my PCs to the receiver so playback of the PCM conversion from foobar is fine for me. As I wrote above, it's the mastering of the SACDs and not the fact that they're in DSD that attracts me to having rips of my SACDs to play back everywhere.

Plus as was pointed out in the ComputerAudiophile thread on this method, spinning the mechanical components in a player causes them to eventually wear out. Yes, storage of a file on a hard drive means the drive has moving parts too (unless one goes for SSD storage), but a sound backup plan helps with this.

 

Yeah, it's very cool, and dead-easy. You just open the app, select the "from server" option on the upper-right, put in the Oppo's IP address, select "ISO" as the format, and press "Execute." The Execute button will gray out and nothing will happen for about 10 seconds, but then the ripping will start.

 

Very cool. Do you still need to load the script files on a USB stick inserted into the Oppo as with the command line method?

 

Yes, but it's crazy simple. Just insert the USB stick and power up the player. The tray will open and when you insert the SACD it is ready. I have found that you do need to power it up without a disc in the tray though.

 

Oh I know, I was just curious about doing it with the ISO2DVD since tmtomh didn't mention the scripts. I thought perhaps it was like the Telnet thing. The opening post in the ComputerAudiophile thread seemed to imply that one needed to Telnet into the player to launch the process, when a few posts later someone mentioned it's not necessary and in fact I didn't do so last night. I simply loaded the scripts with the USB key then double clicked on the cmd file on my PC (after editing it with the IP address for my Oppo). A Command-line window opened and the rip happened. The window closed when it was done and the isos played flawlessly when I loaded them into Foobar.

I'm a very happy camper, especially since I was considering buying a new USB interface with at least 6 analog inputs so I could do analog rips of my multichannel SACDs. I want to get a new interface anyway and other than for that purpose, I don't need 6 channels. Now I can stick with 2 channels.

 

Actually, ISO2DSD does not do the actual rip. It is just the GUI for sacd_extract and one must have that program in the same directory in order that ISO2DSD can access it. ISO2DSD will do the conversion to DSF/DFF by itself.

 

I think the Java app is just doing the command line connection.

 

Sorry, I wasn't clear. You still need the autoscript USB key in the Oppo, and you still need the sacd_extract app - but you don't need the command line script, instead you use the ISO2DVD Java app.

 

I've been merrily ripping away for a few weeks now, with no glitches, but now I've encountered something odd. Here's the background: I convert my DSD isos to 88/24 PCM tracks using foobar2000's DSD reading and converting functions (foo_input_sacd is a necessary plugin). For this one SACD , and this one alone out of a few dozen so far, I am seeing clipping and compression in the DSD layer that his not in the CD layer. The iso was converted with no increase in level (ie., the foobar PCM output option was set to +0 dB) . The picture below is wav views of the track 'Awaken'. For comparison sake, I have normalized all three to peak at -1dB because the default output of the SACD rip/convert process leaves peaks about 6dB down from maximum.

The top pair is from a rip of the CD layer of the SACD (44/16).

The middle pair is the same track from HDTracks (96/24), which looks very similar (though maybe phase inverted compared to the AF).

The bottom pair is from a rip of the DSD layer converted to PCM (88/24). Those clumps of peaks at around 6:00 and 13:00 contain clipped peaks (peaks with flattened tops) when they are blown up .

I have never seen something like this before, including in other AF SACDs. In every case the wavs of the DSD and CD layers are either very similar, with no difference is compression or clipping, or the CD layer has been compressed (case in point: Dark side of the Moon SACD). Here it appears the mastering of the DSD layer was compromised...?






Can someone here who owns the AF SACD for Yes's Going for the One please see if they replicate this?