The last "big" year for rock?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Ophelia, Jan 13, 2017.

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  1. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    It's amazing how well the U2 stadium tour appears to be selling. London, and even Stade de France was an instant sellout (second show announced) and if they are using it normally, that's 70,000+. I thought that after the terrorist attacks, attendance at large-scale events in Paris would plummet, but my clients in Paris say that's not the case. The resilience of her people is tremendous.

    If Metallica wants to tour stadiums, I think that they can do so, especially in Europe and South America. They have sold out three shows at Foro Sol next month (I think that with an all-standing field, that venue is 50,000+). One Direction, on the other hand, is already close to done. Boy bands have a tough time keeping it up (pun intended). Remember when the Backstreet Boys put up an entire world tour for sale at the same time. I think that they still hold the record for number of tickets sold in one day. But about 8 or 9 years ago, I saw the reunited band at the free concert that follows the F-1 Grand Prix in Singapore and I swear there were only about 200-300 real fans.
     
  2. bamaaudio

    bamaaudio Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
  3. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    Well, in re One Direction, they were a teenybopper group put together by a producer on a TV competition show, probably weren't built to last. But you know how it is, a lot of times the members go on to different kinds of successful solo careers, like Justin Timberlake did or Michael Jackson or Joe Jonas now with DNCE did or whoever. And sometimes those are acts that can play huge venues. Timberlake's 20/20 tour did $230 million in 2014 and was that years second highest grossing tour, for example. The first 1D member to leave the group Zayn Malik has already had a #1 album, a #1 single and a #6 single, so we'll see.

    Actually the Backstreet Boys haven't done badly on the road here. I mean, they' have an ongoing Vegas residency; the did $32 million on that In a World Like This Tour, they had a mix of sellout and cancellations on that, but they played 4 continents and were the 44th highest grossing tour in 2014, not the top of the pop, but not bad.

    Rock does really well on the road, better than it does in record sales, but mostly older rock acts with bodies of older music that outsell their new music -- look at pollstar's list for last year: Muse and Coldplay and the RHCP (with very few dates) did well, but all the other top rock acts are, kind of, oldies acts: Springsteen, Guns N Roses, McCartney, Stones, Billy Joel, Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Elton John, Rod Stewert, The Cure, AC/DC, etc.
     
  4. HfxBob

    HfxBob Forum Resident

    And that means it's still big, in my opinion.
     
  5. Mr Sam

    Mr Sam "...don't look so good no more"

    Location:
    France
    1979?
    1984 (last 80's year)?
    1991?
     
  6. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    Well, old rock is still big. And you know, 25% of the music market is still big. It's bigger than jazz, it's bigger than classical (though you know classical music sells out multiple concert halls in major cities across the world every night of the week 365 days a year -- it's also still big and still a big concert draw -- and major markets still have radio stations devoted to it). But to the OP's question about "the last year rock was the main genre, or most relevant genre"....the last time rock was the most popular style of pop music, when rock albums and rock singles by rock performers comprise the bulk of the best selling, most widely listened to records of the year, was in the mid '90s, in the US at least.
     
  7. CrombyMouse

    CrombyMouse Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vienna, Austria
    I can't tell the exact year, but since 1990s we don't have a real BIG ROCK bands anymore.
     
  8. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    I think that Pollstar data is missing a very important component - festival shows. The biggest festival headliners don't get revenues picked up by Pollstar, I think. Most of these acts would expect any new release to do top 5 on most album charts worldwide. It takes time to build the following necessary to headline, so most are "veteran" acts, but are clearly not "oldies" acts. Examples would be:

    Radiohead
    Pearl Jam
    Arcade Fire
    Muse
    Coldplay
    Red Hot Chili Peppers
    Green Day
    Beck
    Nine Inch Nails
    Florence + the Machine

    Younger acts are waiting in the wings- Kasabian, Arctic Monkeys, Bon Iver, The xx, The 1975, Tame Impala, etc. Then there are older bands like The Killers, King of Leon, Black Keys, Jack White, my faves Spoon, The National, and so many others that attract huge followings but may never quite crack superstar status. I really do think it's a vibrant rock scene out there, that attracts real music fans in massive numbers - people that listen to and treasure music the way we used to. Arcade Fire doing "Wake Up" in Brazil.

     
  9. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member


    Oh, I don't doubt that there's plenty of good rock music being made and there are lots of fans for it, but it's not the kind of hegemonic pop style that it was 30, 40 years ago, to the OP's issue of "the main genre" (though the notion that it or anything was the "main genre" is always overstated). But Bon Iver Kasabian, The xx, they'll never do the kind of numbers Justin Bieber or Adele or Drake are doing now. I'd also say Pearl Jam and RHCP are oldies acts and Green Day is getting there.

    And the biggest festival headliners are always the biggest touring acts, they're like anchor stores at the mall -- Kanye and Radiohead etc. I mean look at the achor stores at this years Bonarroo -- U2 and RCHP. You may miss the actual data from festivals in pollstar, but I think the big acts are still the big acts.

    To this question of younger rock acts reaching "superstar status," I don't think it's ever going to happen again. Just like no jazz artist who came up after the '60s ever reached superstar status. Which isn't a measure of the quality of rock music, just of the nature of the fragmented audience and the relatively more marginal position rock is in in the pop music spectrum compared to the '60s, '70s and even '80s. You know rock and soul really were the pop music styles of the boomers in the US (and I say this as a late period boomer). New generations always adopt other rhythms and sounds and styles. But old styles don't go away. Jazz isn't gone, the great Broadway songs of the '30s aren't gone, rock isn't gone.
     
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  10. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    I agree with a lot of what you say. I agree that the notion that what people consider rock was ever the "main genre" is open to dispute. I'm not sure that Michael Jackson, Madonna and George Michael wre all that much more "rock" than Justin Bieber, Adele and Drake. But "rock" was a significant player then (REM, the Cars, Blondie, Joan Jett, New Order, etc.) and it's a significant player now.

    However, I think that the comparison to jazz in the 60's is misguided. The young people that attended Monterey Pop or Woodstock had no interest in jazz - it wasn't the same language. That's simply not true of rock in the '10's - it's still rock. If you attend as many concerts as I do, you see the continuum in rock from the 60's artists to today. And I think that the younger fans that make up the majority of the audience understand that - so it didn't seem strange a few years ago when I attended the Fuji Rock Festival in Japan and saw Elvis Costello, Jack White and Radiohead back to back. It's pretty clear to me - from the Smile-era Beach Boys to the Fleet Foxes, or from Kate Bush to fka twigs, or from Joy Division to The xx.

    As far as younger acts reaching "superstar status", I am fairly sure that you will see acts emerge. If someone had told you in 1990 that Green Day would play stadiums, win Grammys and be in the R&R Hall of Fame, or even a few years ago that Arcade Fire and Muse would be festival headliners, you would have thought it absurd, no? I remember being shocked last summer that Florence + the Machine could headline Hyde Park. It may be hard to imagine any of the more recent bands headlining festivals or playing Madison Square Garden, but give them some time.
     
  11. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    Oh no, I think they'll play 20K seat places. Many of them already are -- Twenty One Pilots & Halsey (I dunno if you'd put her in the 'rock' bucket) have sold out MSG, for example. We probably are using the concept of "superstar status" differently. I'm talking about the type of pop cultural figures who are household names and when they die whose obits might make A1 and the general news radio desk, not just the arts pages. Kanye West, Beyonce, Taylor Swift, Adele might be those kinds of figures -- they're known far and wide across the culture by one name by your parents and your children. Matt Belamy, Win Butler? No. Chris Martin, Billie Jo Armstrong? Maybe the general news desk cares on a slow day. Jack White? Probably not. Dan Auerbach? No way. Remember, when it comes to drawing big crowds, there are a lot more people around today. I mean when Fleetwood Mac hit with Rumours there were 100 million fewer people in America than there are today.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2017
  12. dmiller458

    dmiller458 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midland, Michigan
    "It's got a good beat and you can dance to it."
     
  13. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    I really don't think we can say with any certainty - my girls like Bowie, really enjoyed the Bowie Is exhibit. But if you go back to 1977, what would later be viewed as his greatest song, "heroes", didn't even chart while the now iconic album of the same name stalled out at no. 35 on the Billboard album charts, outslugged by the likes of Leo Sayer, Andy Gibb, Shaun Cassidy and KC and the Sunshine Band.

    And Green Day may be on its way to iconic status. My sisters went to the Hall of Fame ceremony in NY, but they're in their 40's so that makes sense. But, they played Green Day at both of my daughters' graduations and they are 25 and 18. So I really think you don't know until many years down the road.

     
  14. Jarvius

    Jarvius Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gautier,Ms
    I'd say '92. Maybe '93. But if I had to choose, it'll be '92.
     
  15. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    It's certainly true that we don't know the future, and we won't be around to make the future. I always wondered who it was that was listening to Green Day! ;)
     
  16. Todd W.

    Todd W. It's a Puggle

    Location:
    Maryland
    This is the correct answer because if you want legacy/thrash/rock/ metal bands...... here a few that put out damn good stuff in 2016. The whole bogus notion that rock is dead is a joke.

    Metallica - Hard Wired
    Megadeth - Dystopia
    Testament - Brotherhood of the Snake
    Anthrax - For All Kings
    Dream Theater - The Astonishing
    Wolfmother - Victorious
    Killswitch Engage - Incarnate
    Metal Church- XI
    Robin Trower - Where You Are Going To
    Black Stone Cherry - Kentucky
    Cheap Trick - Bang, Zoom, Crazy, Hello
    Ace Frehley- Originals
    Sixx AM - Prayers For The Damned
    Tremonti - Dust
    Radiohead - A Man Shaped Pool
    Eric Clapton - I Still Do
    Mudcrutch - 2
    Death Angel - The Evil Divide
    Red Hot Chili Peppers - Getaway
    Drive By Truckers - American Band
    Opeth - Sorceress
    Alter Bridge - The Last Hero
    Green Day - Revolution Radio
    Korn - The Serenity of Suffering
    Avenged Sevenfold - The Stage

    Others
    Bowie - Blackstar
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017
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  17. ky658

    ky658 Senior Member

    Location:
    Ft Myers, Florida
    Rock as we knew it? 1972.
     
  18. HfxBob

    HfxBob Forum Resident

    Nice work, thank you.
     
  19. HfxBob

    HfxBob Forum Resident

    How can it be 1972? 1973 was awesome.
     
  20. Todd W.

    Todd W. It's a Puggle

    Location:
    Maryland
    Your welcome and I'm sure I might have missed a few.
     
  21. MJD

    MJD Forum Resident

    Location:
    France, Paris
    I would definitely put Green Day among oldies. Their 2003/2004 make them look younger, but they got their first album out when Adele wasn't even 2 years old. They are as deep into their career than the Rolling Stones were by 1991.
     
  22. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    Yeah, maybe, at least if RHCP are, but maybe both are kind of that @drbryant calls veteran but not oldies acts. I mean, is their new music getting contemporary format airplay? That's a decent question as a proxy and Green Day is definitely is getting lots of airplay with new music on active and alt stations, RHCP too, Metallica as well. Part of their appeal on the road may be a body of work people remember, but if the new stuff is getting as much or more airplay alongside, I dunno, Avenged Sevenfold and Chevelle and Highly Suspect and Breaking Benjamin, then I think they're something more than just an oldies act. So, maybe it's true these are more in that kind of in-between space between contemporary acts and oldies acts.
     
  23. MJD

    MJD Forum Resident

    Location:
    France, Paris
    The youngest Green Day song among their personal top 5 list on Spotify is from 2009, the others from 1994/2004. All those catalog songs have 5+ times more plays than the biggest song of their 2016 album, so as you can see they really are closer to oldies than contemporary.
     
  24. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    Well but "Still Breathing" is #3 on this week's Mediabase Active Rock airplay chart and it's #3 on this week's BDS Alternative airplay chart....that ain't an oldies act, that's a top contemporary rock radio act.
     
  25. dmiller458

    dmiller458 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midland, Michigan
    I was busy with work and I wanted to take some time to think about my reply. Between Hardwired and their catalog, I understand that they've sold ~1.5 million AEUs in 2016. I don't know what those others sold. Calling them the biggest rock band was an over-reach on my part.
     
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