What do you think is the weakest link in my sound system?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by beastmittens, Jan 22, 2017.

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  1. Bananas&blow

    Bananas&blow It's just that demon life has got me in its sway

    Location:
    Pacific Beach, CA
    Haha, straight from an old Onkyo receiver to a Parasound eh? Might as well get some Wilson's and 4k in cables while you're at it. FWIW I agree that he should make a commitment to better speakers. Not a one step up either. The speakers make the biggest difference in the sound of a system.
     
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  2. William Bryant

    William Bryant Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nampa, Idaho
    If a component is malfunctioning that changes the equation. Fix it or replace it first for sure.
     
  3. beastmittens

    beastmittens Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Kentucky
    So is the noise coming from the built in phono?
     
  4. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Perfect Sound Through Crystal Clear Digital

    I agree completely, but he has to woo his bride a bit more, and that wooing may take a few months, "meanwhile" he can be saving some bucks and his first big purchase can be the Parasound, plus I can assure you, the Parasound can be bought "right" you just have to work at it, and it is one super duper integrated. I had a Concentra for about 15 years, and other than the bright shinny face plate it did nothing this integrated won't do. I like Parasound so much, I should sell the stuff, never wears out, second to none service, an owner that talks to customers on the phone, it's just a top shelf company, period. Yes it would be a big step up, but given the months it will take to bring his bride around for the speakers on stands, it could all work out. Think what his present speakers would sound like on normal stands with this integrated, could be a good match until he makes the next big speaker upgrade! :edthumbs:
     
  5. Bananas&blow

    Bananas&blow It's just that demon life has got me in its sway

    Location:
    Pacific Beach, CA
    Turn on the radio and you tell us :). You do have the TT grounded ?
     
  6. gudnoyez

    gudnoyez Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa
    Yeah that Parasound is a sweet integrated and will drive a pair of 705's with ease love Parasound, I have a Halo A31 and enjoy it immensely. If the OP gets that integrated it will put a smile on his face but probably not WAF approved.
     
  7. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Perfect Sound Through Crystal Clear Digital

    I have the A-21 on main system, it's just top flight equipment, and that integrated does it ALL in one little neat package, and the SABRE DAC for the computer audio, it just covers all bases!
     
  8. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    I fully agree about the Parasound Integrated, it just sounds right. Its sound reminds me of some really good vintage SS amps.

    beastmittens,

    There are some creative speaker shelves out there, maybe she'd allow you to put them on a lower shelf, closer to ear level, and they could be turned right-side up?

    Another possible option could be some in-wall speakers. Many high-end brands offer them, such as Focal. Of course, that would require running wires through the wall, but that's not as difficult as it sounds. I'm actually considering this option for my main floor living room. Many in-wall speakers allow aiming of the tweeters toward your preferred listening spot.
     
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  9. There is your weakness?
     
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  10. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    It's a problem with the overall noise floor of the Onkyo amplifier. The phono section will have its own noise floor and that gets added to that of the linestage and power stage, then passed along to the speakers. Those speakers were a very good value in their day and they have decent low frequency extension. You can certainly find cleaner sounding speakers today, but the LF extension will be limited and the cost will be higher for you to get a really nice set. You seem to be limited more by your space, which will limit the performance of any speaker system, so i suggest that you clean-up the signal going into them first. IME, the Onkyo amps can have a rather artificial sound to them. The noise added is non-linear and creates all types of distortions at various frequencies. The result is generally described as being harsh and thin in the worst cases or forward in more forgiving terms. Either way, it doesn't make for a pleasant sound or inspire long listening sessions in and of itself.

    Better sounding amplifiers (and I recommend an integrated amp rather than a receiver of any brand), will often have better phono stages built-in or you could buy each separately. The choices are more slim for a unit that includes both of excellent quality. The Rega Brio integrated amps have a very nice sweet sound and their internal phono stages are better than most budget external types. The latest version, the Brio-R, includes remote control and has the most transparent sound, but all are at least a bit warmer than neutral. If you choose an integrated amp with line level inputs only, you will have many more options and can also choose the phono stage that best suits the system and budget. A really nice sounding and fun choice might include a tube amp as the base and then add a phono stage. You can get away with a low powered tube amp (10-20wpc) and still get great sound. While tube amps tend to have higher noise floors than solid state amps, the line section will not impart as much if the phono section is a good quality SS type, and the frequency range and characteristics of tube distortions are much more pleasant to the ear.
    -Bill
     
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  11. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL

    Speakers.
     
  12. beastmittens

    beastmittens Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Kentucky
    Unfortunately that Rega Brio is way out of my price range. Are there any good options for around $100?
     
  13. displayname

    displayname Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas
    $100 budget = speaker stands are your best option by far. Just get those things right side up with the Tweeter as near to ear level as possible.

    Maybe you can find a quality vintage amp in good condition. Older amps tend to have decent phono stages because they where built in a time when that was a major deciding factor for most buyers. Even then I think you'll have hard time staying near that $100 mark. Talk to the wife and see if you can come to an agreement.
     
  14. beastmittens

    beastmittens Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Kentucky
    So I now believe that the annoying static/white noise is not coming from the Onkyo receiver but from either the turntable or the records themselves. I tried turning up the volume without the turntable playing and there was very little noise as I increased the volume. The noise gets loud when the needle hits the groove. It's mainly noticeable in quieter parts of a song or in between songs. Do you think it could just be the records? Thoughts?
     
  15. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL

    Same here with this one:D

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. beastmittens

    beastmittens Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Kentucky
    Hahahaha you got me on that one
     
  17. displayname

    displayname Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas
    When exactly does the noise start?
    1 - when the phono input is turned on, but the record player isn't running yet?
    2 - when the record player starts turning, but the stylus hasn't hit the vinyl yet?
    3 - when the stylus hits the vinyl?

    Also, are you running any other electronics while you are playing the turntable? How old is your stylus? Is it the same sound on every record? Have you cleaned your records?

    There are a lot of variables in play. The sooner we can narrow down what it isn't, the sooner you can get back to enjoying the music.
     
  18. beastmittens

    beastmittens Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Kentucky

    When the stylus hits the vinyl. Stylus is only a few months old. I have cleaned some of my records with the Spin Clean machine I recently got. Will compare more records when I get back home tonight.
     
  19. displayname

    displayname Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas
    That's the best starting point. If it's not equal sound on each record, it's dirty and/or damaged vinyl. If it's the same on every record, it could be the stylus, or possibly the table.
     
  20. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Perfect Sound Through Crystal Clear Digital

    I would think this would be an easy problem to troubleshoot. This is what I would do.
    1. As beastmittens said, make sure your television and other things around your system are OFF, my television introduces hum into my phone section easily, so I always turn it off.
    2. Unplug all inputs to receiver and turn the volume up and down with nothing plugged into the receiver, see if you have noise as you advance your volume, you will probably have some, but it should be pretty quiet. Especially do this with the phono input, and you may find that input has a bit of white noise which is pretty standard, but it should only be evident at loud volume settings, certainly no hum or static.
    3. Plug in something other than your turntable and see if that source becomes distorted as you advance your volume knob with music playing, if it does not, it's probably not the receiver
    4. Now that you have found no noise with nothing connected to the phono input, now connect your turntable and just advance the volume and see if when connected it has problems. While you are doing this listen for hum as well.
    5. Now simply set the stylus on the record, without the platter turning and advance the volume knob, what do you hear now?
    6. Finally turn the platter on and check with stylus in play. If you do all the above, you should easily narrow down the problem source.

    There is one turntable out in the field that is known for a 120 HZ hum/buzz, which happens the second the stylus is lowered into the record groove with the platter turning, this has affected thousands of these turntables, and the manufacturer does not seem to be interested in fixing the problem, the Debut Carbon turntable. So, I hope these simple trouble shooting tips helps to determine what is going on with your music.
     
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  21. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    Even a decent phono stage is going to run more than $100. If you are just saying that the records are noisy when played, well that's a horse of another color. I will still recommend buying a better amp with phono or amp + phono stage when funds allow, but I'd be saving for around a $1k expenditure if you want a seriously better sound. The noisy records are, well just noisy records. That's part of the package with a slab of vinyl be scraped by a diamond. It ain't digital... If all you have to put into it is $100, I'd say not to worry about the gear and instead look for records in better shape the next time you are shopping for them. If the records are new that you say you hear some noise on, then that is not really a problem with the equipment but more likely your expectations of a purely mechanical medium to play with a silent background. The quiet parts will never be as silent as a digital format. It's the parts between the silence that analog gets right
    -Bill
     
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  22. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Perfect Sound Through Crystal Clear Digital

    For next to nothing ($149.00) this would be a vast improvement over the phono stage in your little receiver.

    [​IMG]

    :cop:
     
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  23. Waylon9

    Waylon9 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lewisville, TX
    Tell me my weak component in this mix of equipment.
    Martin Logan Preface speakers
    Mcintosh C28 preamplifier
    Mcintosh MC 2205 power amplifier
    Music Hall mmf 2.2 with ortofon 2m red cartridge

    Any and all comments welcome. I want to upgrade something and I suspect the turntable. Thanks
     
  24. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    I'd upgrade the cartridge.
     
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  25. jjh1959

    jjh1959 Senior Member

    Location:
    St. Charles, MO
    Those Boston A-120's are very good speakers. Proper placement would be the greatest upgrade at zero cost.
     
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