Are 80s Led Zeppelin CDs really better?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by SOONERFAN, Jan 9, 2010.

  1. Dynamic Ranger

    Dynamic Ranger Forum Resident

    Location:
    Old Town, Maine
    The Diament CDs for ALL of Led Zeppelin's albums are the only way to go. They sound the most natural, are the most musical, and have the best sound-stage. While the Davis remasters are a bloated mess of boosted bass and ultra goosed high end. YUCK! Listening to the Davis HOTH was a painful experience. Just downright awful! It's a shame this is how music is mastered these days. When I spoke to Barry himself, he even agrees these sound far too "futzed with" was how he put it. Some parts even sound re-mixed! Not good, not good at all. For those who value their hearing, or would rather hear LZ the way they were meant to sound, seek out the originals! Diament was a king at what he did, and it's a shame that he's not around these parts anymore. :shake:
     
    coolsound, Dave, rburly and 2 others like this.
  2. Bingo Bongo

    Bingo Bongo Music gives me Eargasms

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    I had the original [​IMG] CDs in my iTunes until the 2014 remasters came along. Love the remasters, but can't say they were a revelation compared to the originals.:shrug:

    Wish I kept my original LPs......:sigh:
     
  3. On that I could never argue. Thanks for clarifying that, so I didn't have to.:edthumbs:
     
    Jonboy likes this.
  4. tmtomh

    tmtomh Forum Resident

    And that those who prefer some of the Davises to the Marinos and/or Diaments aren't elitists.
     
    Jonboy, SammyJoe and Clanceman like this.
  5. Clanceman

    Clanceman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, Or
    Always loved the Diaments....until the Davis remasters (for the most part.)

    If there was any remixing (don't think I've heard that one) - great job.

    Presence & ITTOD were absolute revelations to my ears.

    Love what Barry did, & am grateful for the Davis work.

    Own all the Diaments, Sidore, & Marinos.

    Frankly, I haven't felt the urge to purge ANY of them from my collection.

    It's fun & fairly easy to be a Zep completist. I'll pop in a cd & enjoy from any of these issues from time to time. Add the various vinyl pressings.

    Just my opinion. Love em all I says...let your ears sort em out! :)
     
  6. Sick Sick Phil

    Sick Sick Phil Forum Resident

    i prefer the early 90's remasters. I like the eq on them. None of the 80's, 90's and the new remasters sound bad though.
     
  7. HotelYorba101

    HotelYorba101 Senior Member

    Location:
    California
    I honestly prefer the clarity and soundstage of the Davis version of HOTH in my opinion even more than the Diaments. The Diaments are very easy to listen to though, very crankable, I just find that the added detail and still-easy to listen to EQ choices of the Davis version tip the scale a bit for me. Both are great though and I certainly find the warmness of the Diament a great feature and easily understand why people would choose that one :)
     
    Clanceman and SammyJoe like this.
  8. _Shorty

    _Shorty Forum Resident

    I don't remember if I ever bothered checking every album, but IIRC the ones I did check there was actually less bass in the Davis remasters, not more. For example:

    Led Zep III
    Up to 26 Hz zep3-2014 needs +1 dB correction to match zep3-diament.
    27 Hz to 65 Hz it needs 0 dB correction.
    66 Hz to 76 Hz it needs +1 dB correction.
    77 Hz to 97 Hz it needs +2 dB correction.
    99 Hz to 146 Hz it needs +1 dB correction.
    148 Hz to 347 Hz it needs 0 dB correction.

    Are 80s Led Zeppelin CDs really better? »

    And Immigrant Song - Diament vs. 2014:

    Up to 28 Hz needs +1 dB correction.
    29 Hz to 60 Hz needs 0 dB
    61 hz to 71 Hz needs +1 dB
    73 Hz to 95 Hz needs +2 dB
    97 Hz to 109 Hz needs +1 dB
    111 Hz to 206 Hz needs 0 dB

    Are 80s Led Zeppelin CDs really better? »

    And from a quick glance at the graphs the high end isn't boosted, either.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017
    Malina and tmtomh like this.
  9. Dynamic Ranger

    Dynamic Ranger Forum Resident

    Location:
    Old Town, Maine
    Those charts may say otherwise, but all I hear is an obvious smiley face EQ. Louder for the sake of being louder.
     
  10. _Shorty

    _Shorty Forum Resident

    Anyone can take their own sources and repeat the test. The results will be the same. There are obvious differences, but they don't seem to be what you're interpreting them to be.
     
    johnny q and tmtomh like this.
  11. Dynamic Ranger

    Dynamic Ranger Forum Resident

    Location:
    Old Town, Maine
    Well, be that as it may. The 80's Diament discs are the winners for me. Nothing else even comes close to them sound-wise.
     
    Holy Diver likes this.
  12. _Shorty

    _Shorty Forum Resident

    If you get bored one day, see if you can ABX these. Something I threw together back in 2013 to compare the Diament and the Marino, only with the Marino tweaked the match the EQ of the Diament. See if you can pick out any non-EQ-related changes, since the EQ should match.

    Are 80s Led Zeppelin CDs really better? »
     
    Malina likes this.
  13. Klassik

    Klassik Guerilla BeatLOLogist

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I must say that the case of Led Zeppelin is the only case where I've ever indulged a popular pursuit on this board of 'comparing editions'.
    I thought the recent remaster of '1' was incredible and that I was hearing much more detail etc etc than in previous editions (I'm talking of certain tracks in particular, as occurring on album editions or on compilations, all on CD).
    But when I came to compare these, the only differences I found in reality were really about overall volume.

    Also, in this area, it's really possible to convince yourself that edition A is better than B which brings in the need for blind-tests.
    I've done enough of these on my own material, when mastering, that I am aware that many factors other than objective sonics can influence perception so I'm really never going to be in the game of marginal differences. Gut differences? Yes. I've stuck with the recent remasters on that alone. Basically, I had never really dug Good Times Bad Times before but on debuting Page's recent remaster I declared it 'genius' so that will be the one for me.

    Must say, for similar reasons, I'm attached to an 80's press of IV but that's influenced by the situation of first hearing it.

    These things can be much more involved with one's opinions than is expected.
    I don't think I can manage to convince myself any other version is better because the whole experience of that 80's CD is attached to my love for the album now.
    I can well understand how someone else might, for example, refuse to budge on an edition said to be 'worst' by others.

    And so on.

    Basically, I like to keep my love for the music uppermost.
    I always had a suspicion that 'hifi' wasn't a good way for me to go so I've never had a great 'main system' to hook to for listening and instead enjoy hearing music the way I originally did, on tinny mono speakers (then transistor radio, now mobile phone speaker), headphones of varying response, and anywhere else it occurs.
    It's practically heresy of course for those with SACD and the like but I have to recommend it if music not sound is actually the food of your love.
     
  14. HiFi Guy 008

    HiFi Guy 008 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    If the Davis HOTH isn't remixed I'll be a horse's uncle's monkey.
     
    Dynamic Ranger likes this.
  15. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    Will that be bananas or oats for you?
     
  16. reddyempower

    reddyempower Forum Resident

    Location:
    columbus, oh, usa
    Yeah, you nailed it.

    I myself have a mixed collections of vinyl with some Classics and some 70s pressings, missing only Coda. The Crop Circles and Boxed 2 for the Marino masterings which of course incldes the CODA songs, and then all the Davis and Diaments except Coda. It was not expensive to assemble this, and you get almost nothing reselling CDs these days, so I'm keeping everything.
     
    Clanceman and tmtomh like this.
  17. Mike Campbell

    Mike Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Minnesota, USA
    No. they are not.
     
  18. HiFi Guy 008

    HiFi Guy 008 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    It sounds remixed. How do we know it wasn't?
     
  19. tmtomh

    tmtomh Forum Resident

    It is indeed possible that it was remixed. But for that to be true, Davis must have done it secretly, without Page's knowledge. Or he did it with Page's knowledge and approval, but they both decided no to tell the record company and no one at Rhino noticed. And they didn't remix the other albums, only this one. And they didn't take the opportunity to advertise and promote what would be the massive news (within Zep/rock music circles anyway) that a Zep album had been remixed from the multitracks under the supervision of Jimmy Page. And dozens of other folks here, including some super-familiar with Zep and others who are super-anal with all kinds of technical analysis skills, would all somehow not have noticed this, along with every professional reviewer, plus professional Zep fanatics like Dave Lewis, and all the others who attended the various pre-release listening sessions.

    I am not saying this to be sarcastic or in any way nasty. I'm just noting that while it's possible it was remixed, it's extremely unlikely for a whole lot of reasons. It could be because I follow Zep threads more closely than some others here, but it sure seems like there's a disproportionate amount of this particular type of speculation on the Zep threads: an unlikely or implausible possibility gets proposed, and the proposer then asserts that the burden is on others to disprove their speculation, rather than on them to provide some kind of evidence.
     
    Roberto899, DBR70, Clanceman and 5 others like this.
  20. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    What sounds remixed about it?
     
    Clanceman likes this.
  21. HiFi Guy 008

    HiFi Guy 008 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    Thank you for the gracious response. I appreciate the others here, like you, who do follow these discussions assiduously. And respect all of your anal (like mine) findings. (No unpleasant pun intended).

    It's just that I've never heard an album that was supposedly only remastered - not remixed - sound so different. To me, this HOTH sounds like a completely different animal. Of course I may be flat out wrong. I'm not an engineer. But, again, I've never heard such a dramatic change in the overall musical expression - ever - in a remastered cd. I've heard the original lp since the early 80's, and the Diament cd for over a decade on all kinds of systems, high and low.

    I'm not being snide, but see my note above your quote.

    My question is: what doesn't sound remixed about it? I'm not putting the onus on you guys who are sure it's only remastered. I just want to hear what you have to say and learn.
     
    tmtomh likes this.
  22. _Shorty

    _Shorty Forum Resident

    Remixed means there are changes to the music. As in, let's make this guitar a lot louder than before and 25% more to the left, and let's use this second take of the solo instead. Things like that. That's remixing. Remastering means there are no changes to the music, only to the overall finalized recording. As in, let's boost 2 KHz by 1.5 dB, and add a little bit of limiting since that would introduce a small amount of clipping now and then. Chances are all you're hearing is EQ differences, and maybe small differences in dynamic range. You'd be surprised how much things can sound different just with some small EQ changes.
     
  23. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    I don't hear anything beyond EQ differences and the slightly better stereo separation on the Diament CD.
     
    DiabloG, DBR70, Dr. Funk and 2 others like this.
  24. HiFi Guy 008

    HiFi Guy 008 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    Thanks. I know, EQ changes can make a dramatic difference. And I've loved Steve's work especially for this. On the Davis HOTH I hear no second take of a solo, but everything is so disjointed - or re-jointed - compared to the original. I'll compare the Diament with the Davis again and give some specifics. If you guys are patient enough! :laugh:
     
    tmtomh likes this.
  25. Dr. Funk

    Dr. Funk Vintage Dust

    Location:
    Fort Worth TX
    This is the second time this month I have heard or seen talk about the Davis Houses Of The Holy being a remix. Am I missing something?
     
    Clanceman and tmtomh like this.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine