An Interesting Thing About Shure Cartridges from the Golden Age....

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by feinstei9415, Feb 26, 2017.

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  1. feinstei9415

    feinstei9415 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    South Bend, IN
    This was posted in the FM Tuners Yahoo Group, somehow, I threadcrapped something about Shure cartridges and another gentleman on the group replied with this interesting bit of trivia.....

    From a guy who worked at Shure in the golden age of the 1970's.....
    "Shure made everything except the actual diamond tips. Another company made them. I don't remember if we actually glued them to the shanks in house. One funny side note was that all cartridge bodies in a particular series were exactly the same. The only difference between models was the cosmetic plastic covering them. The M91 ED was the same as the V15 III. They would just put little plastic tits on the high end stylus bodies so they wouldn't slide into the coil body hole. A sharp X-Acto knife used in the right places would remove these. A V15 III would work just fine in an M91ED body."
     
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  2. Jimi Floyd

    Jimi Floyd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pisa, Italy
    I find this hard to believe, because those two cartridges have different electrical parameters (data from Shure):

    M91 ED - inductance = 720mH, resistance = 630Ω
    V15 III - inductance = 500mH, resistance=1350Ω
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
  3. feinstei9415

    feinstei9415 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    South Bend, IN
    Thanks for looking in both instruction manuals and pointing this out. The guy who related this might have been mistaken. In addition, it appears from the Shure instruction manuals for both cartridges that the pins on the cartridges are laid out differently....
     
  4. feinstei9415

    feinstei9415 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    South Bend, IN
    I think that what the guy on YahooGroups meant to say was that the M91ED and Shure V15 Type II (not Type III) cartridges are identical. The electrical specifications on the Type II match the M91ED's. The staggered pin layout on the Type II also matches the M91ED's.....

    In light of this, one wonders if the current Shure top-of-the-line cartridge model (the M97xE) is really a V15 Type VxMR (the top end model when Shure stopped making the V15 series due to the Beryllium toxicity) with a different cantilever material that doesn’t involve Beryllium…
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
  5. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    I've read this before. And also I believe I've read the M75 and the M95 (original version) were the same cartridge bodies with different cosmetics and styli. Read it either Vinylengine or Audiokarma.
     
  6. Ron Ginsberg

    Ron Ginsberg New Member

    Location:
    Glenmont NY
    I have used Shure cartridges since the 70's, beginning with the type III and moving on to the types IV and V. I still have a type V with the original Shure stylus. I have had since recent correspondence with Shure regarding quality of their new line and old stylus as well as the Jico replacements. Their support people were kind enough to respond to both of my inquiries. My questions and their replies may be of interest concerning this thread:
    Replacement sylus or cartridge for the Shure V15 Type VMR

    Response By Email (Michael P) (01/11/2016 01:05 PM)
    1) Shure has not tested the V15 V JICO stylus, but customer reports have been positive.

    2) The M97xE is the equivalent of a V15IV and one half. Not as good as the V15V, but better than the V15IV.

    3) The phono business for Shure is so tiny that even if tripled, it would be a drop in the bucket compared to the microphone business. Highly unlikely that Shure will ever develop a new phono product.


    Customer By Web (Ron Ginsberg) (01/11/2016 12:37 PM)
    I have a Shure V15 Type VMR (as well as a type IV). My practice was to buy the latest, and then buy a replacement stylus (usually an upgrade version) to play "older" records, while the latest cartridge stylus combination was used to play records in the best condition. Unfortunately when the type V replacement stylus went out of production and stockpile was still available, I did not purchase it. Now my type IV has lost a channel and my type V still performs beautifully. However, it is getting on and I'd like to get a new stylus. I can purchase a SAS Jico. My question is which would give better performance. Your new M97x or a replacement stylus. My recollection is that the old M97 series was one of your mid grade products back in the old phono days. Would I will well served with a Jico stylus for my better and new records and a new M97 to be used to play my older records? I'm looking for a candid answer.

    Is the company thinking about getting back into the audiophile business again now that analog records have been gaining in popularity among the younger generation?
    Question Reference # 160111-000035
    • Date Created: 01/11/2016 12:37 PM
    • Date Last Updated: 01/11/2016 01:05 PM
    M97XE Cartridge vs V15 Type VxMr

    Response By Email (Michael P) (02/29/2016 07:32 AM)
    Question: Is the cartridge body the same between the V and the M97?
    * Quite similar, but not identical. Exact difference(s) is proprietary information.


    Are the internal mechanics the same?
    * Again, quite similar but not identical.

    Will the stylus of the M97XE fit the Type V mechanically?
    * Answer Link: N97xE stylus in a V15 Vx body?

    If so would it be sonically compatible?
    * See answer above.

    Are the old style nuts available?
    * Sorry, this hardware was discontinued about 10 years ago. None remains.

    Customer By Web (Ron Ginsberg) (02/26/2016 09:13 PM)
    In 1978 I purchased a Shure V15 Type III, when the type IV was developed I upgraded and was extremely pleased with how the dynamic stabilizer improved the performance of my Technics SL-1650's tone arm, especially when playing warped records. When the type V appeared in 1985 I purchased it and I have had it use with the original stylus until today. Since I can no longer purchase a replacement stylus, I inquired with you and your staff quickly replied and suggested the M97XE, saying it exceeded the performance of the Type IV, and fell slightly short of the Type V. I have installed the M97XE and I feel it is the at least the equal of my Type V (of course the stylus must be worn considerably). It may even be better. Question: Is the cartridge body the same between the V and the M97? They appear to be essentially identical. Are the internal mechanics the same? Will the stylus of the M97XE fit the Type V mechanically? If so would it be sonically compatible? One last question: The Type V came with beautifully designed nuts that fit underneath the body and made mounting easy with the screw head mounted on top. The new design encourages the nuts to be placed on top. This makes alignment of the headshell/body much more challenging. Are the old style nuts available? I have more than one headshell and I still use the type V when I play records that are a bit more worn. I have found that having more than one cartridge/headshell available reduces wear on the stylus so a set of the old style nuts would be very helpful.
    Question Reference # 160227-000027
    • Date Created: 02/26/2016 09:13 PM
    • Date Last Updated: 02/29/2016 07:32 AM
    • Status: Waiting
     
    Rockin' Robby, muskrat and timind like this.
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