U-Turn Orbit Plus/Ortofon 2M Red vs Blue questions.

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Mateo Sanboval, Feb 27, 2017.

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  1. Mateo Sanboval

    Mateo Sanboval For me, the action is the juice. Thread Starter

    Bingo, sir. Bingo.

    By the way, that deer hide mat looks positively lush. Sadly, I know next to nothing about which mats improve sound better or worse (or not at all). Well, at least there's no shortage of topics to research in this hobby.
     
  2. displayname

    displayname Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas
    U-Turn said that the acrylic platter and MDF platter are the exact same size, and the carts are installed with a 3mm mat in use. However, they also said this difference is minimal and the acrylic can be used without a mat.

    I ran mine without a mat for a while with zero issue. With the older 8.6" arm you were more likely to see skips on the inner grooves without a mat in place. I ended up getting a clear acrylic mat because knowing my VTA was technically off was driving me crazy. The clear acrylic was selected solely because I like the clear look, not for any performance reasons. In all honestly the mat made zero difference in sound or performance, but it has given me peace of mind.
     
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  3. CCrider92

    CCrider92 Senior Member

    Location:
    Cape Cod, MA
    The OP needs to check out the Nag MP110!
     
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  4. Madness

    Madness "Hate is much too great a burden to bear."

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    Can you qualify this statement? I've barely looked at specs for both, but noticed traceability is 70 with the red and 80 with the blue. I'm trying to determine why the blue is "so much better" than the red?

    Thanks.
     
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  5. Madness

    Madness "Hate is much too great a burden to bear."

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    I've read that you don't need a mat for an acrylic platter.
     
  6. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    I can't give you numbers that back it up but I've pulled the red off and slid a blue on a few times and the difference is not subtle. Just more of everything across the board...Detail, bass and music.
     
  7. krisjay

    krisjay Psychedelic Wave Rider

    Location:
    Maine
    I never use a mat with an acrylic platter. I have tried various ones, and for me it always sounds better naked.
     
  8. Madness

    Madness "Hate is much too great a burden to bear."

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    Given the choice between the red and blue, I would definitely go with the blue, just based upon everything I've read on this forum, but was looking for something to back all of that up, other than "it's just better by leaps and bounds"...that's too subjective for me. :laugh:
     
  9. Madness

    Madness "Hate is much too great a burden to bear."

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    Yep there's a time and place for naked, and the listening room is as good a place to start as any! :-popcorn:
     
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  10. OldSkoolFool

    OldSkoolFool Forum Resident

    Location:
    Thousand Oaks
    I have two U-turns (one for me and one at my girlfriends house). My first had a Grado Black which I hated. I replaced that with an Ortofon Red (much better IMHO) and then upgraded again to the Blue which I believe is a really good cart especially for the money. The Blue opened up the sound stage quite a bit more than the Red. Records that sounded OK on the red sound much cleaner and more detailed on the Blue. I really noticed a difference on records that were sourced as digital and had lower dynamic range. It sounded more compressed with the Red than with the blue. It must have something to do with the stylus since the cart bodies are the same.

    The other TT runs an OM5E which I love so very much and plan on upgrading the stylus on that.

    I use an acrylic platter with no mat and I love it. It looks great and sounds great as well.
     
  11. H8SLKC

    H8SLKC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    I used the Orbit with several different mats and wound up buying a clear acrylic mat to sit on top of the acrylic platter. My thought was that it allowed for the U-Turn recommended VTA, since they recommend a mat even with their acrylic platters. It looks great and sounds great. Oh, I also have the Ortofon 2m blue installed and love it. It's a great match for the Orbit.
     
  12. displayname

    displayname Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas
    I have this exact same set up with a clear acrylic mat. I also purchased it for the same reason, and I think it's worth the peace of mind.
     
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  13. H8SLKC

    H8SLKC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    It looks kinda cool too! The way the thinner layer catches the light, coupled with the label divot, makes the platter look neat to my eye. It's funny that I just bought an objectively-much-better table than my Orbit but I still love that machine and think it's amazing.
     
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  14. McGuy

    McGuy All Mc, all the time...

    Location:
    Chicago
    I have a pro-ject DC with the ortofon 2m blue, upgraded after a year with the red, noticeable difference with the blue. as for skipping onto the label, has never happened to me and I've been drunk enough to forget to stop the TT when I went up to bed and it ran all night and was still in the dead zone...
     
  15. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    I think that you did hit the sweet spot at $450. But... suggest that you don't invest in further "improvements" as they might not be price/performance justified.

    Most manufacturer's build products to achieve a certain degree of performance at a certain price point. That is just good business.

    Offering upgrades to a product is a good thing. There is a point of diminishing returns, where it makes sense to take a step or two up the product line, instead of continuing to enhance a basic model.

    There are some nice cartridges to choose from in the $100-$200 price range. Beyond that, you may or may not see much more of an improvement, for the additional money spent.
     
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  16. H8SLKC

    H8SLKC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    I don't disagree with you S&G, but maybe I do. The U-Turn is a much better turntable than people give it credit for being. I may just throw an "elite" cartridge on mine at some point and see how it fares, but I don't see why it would hold back a cartridge at least at the level of a 2m bronze or comparable. At that point the cartridge would be worth as much or more than the table, but we see that all of the time with other turntables, so I believe it likely that the U-Turn could make very nice sounds indeed with a 2m bronze, or should I say it would allow the 2m bronze to shine. I have a Clearaudio Virtuoso on another turntable and I might just throw it onto the U-Turn at some point to see how it all sounds.
     
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  17. Madness

    Madness "Hate is much too great a burden to bear."

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    I have what might be a silly question. When they say the Red can be upgraded to Blue, and Bronze can be upgraded to Black, why can't Red be upgraded to Bronze or Black? Is it the headshell that's different, and that needs to be changed to upgrade?

    Thanks!
     
  18. arem

    arem Forum Resident

    The Red and Blue share the same cartridge body, but the stylus is different between the two. The Bronze and Black have a different, upgraded body from the Red/Blue, and again have different stylus types. All four stylus will fit any of the bodies, but a Black needle on a Blue cart will not sound the same as it will on the Black cart.
     
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  19. Mateo Sanboval

    Mateo Sanboval For me, the action is the juice. Thread Starter

    Yep, different carts for the red/blue and bronze/black styluses.
     
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  20. Madness

    Madness "Hate is much too great a burden to bear."

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    So I can change from Red/Blue to Bronze/Black by just changing the entire cartridge/stylus?
     
  21. Madness

    Madness "Hate is much too great a burden to bear."

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    No changes to the arm/headshell/leads?
     
  22. Mateo Sanboval

    Mateo Sanboval For me, the action is the juice. Thread Starter

    Someone here probably knows better than me, but I believe the heads he'll is the same. Ortofon refers to these as "plug and play".
     
  23. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    I have no issues with what I am understanding about the quality of the U-Turn for the $$$.

    I have a Bronze/Black on my vintage Thorens TD-160 Super. The Bronze would probably work even better than the Blue. The Black, I really don't think so.

    That is why I comment,

    It is hard, if not impossible to tell without either hearing it yourself or by getting additional input from forum members on the subject.

    The U-Turn is such a new product and has gone through many improvements since it was first introduced.

    I believe with their new tonearm. a better cartridge upgrade is still possible.

    But... just because you can, doesn't always make it the best decision.

    There is only so much money that someone should be throwing at a $250 TT. At the end of the day, it is a $250 TT with upgrades.

    You get it to the point where you can derive satisfaction from it and leave well enough alone.

    If you are happy with the TT where you can listen to it for years, then all is good.

    If you do decide to move up the TT ladder in the future, it is nice to know that you may only be loosing about $200 on the U-Turn, at the time that you sell it.

    Mod's are nice, but they exist mostly for the gratification of the purchaser. In other words, when you sell, don't plan on getting much return on you investments in modifications.

    Also, not everybody is looking for something that has been modded.

    I have found, that I can be more successful in my audio endeavors if I control my losses. Most of my equipment, I could sell on the used market, pretty close to what I purchased it for. If a individual piece of equipment is what I want and has been excellently maintained, I don't have an issue, paying a fair price for it.

    As we garner U-Turn users on the forum, we will have some input on what to do or what not to do, with regard to U-Turn mods and cartridge upgrades.

    One advantage of a cartridge upgrade, is that it is not something that is TT specific, like a platter, you can use it on your next TT.

    We also need to have information on how the U-Turn TT's, hold up after several years of use.

    It would be interesting to know, how many people would be buying vintage U-Turn TT's, forty years from now?

    In addition, I would tend to think that the majority of U-Turn buyers are buying their first, or at least their first "real" TT.

    Because of having a good first TT, they have the potential to stay with the hobby. When they trade up to a better TT, what would be their descriptions of improvements they notice in their new TT, vs. the U-Turn?

    Like you say, it would be nice to get some more input on U/G's to the U-Turn.
     
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  24. Mateo Sanboval

    Mateo Sanboval For me, the action is the juice. Thread Starter

    Would the Ortofon 2M Blue be considered a high output cartridge? I am largely ignorant to this sort of thing, but I'm looking for the proper phono preamp to mash with my U-turn orbit Plus and high/low output seems to come up quite a bit.
     
  25. Clonesteak

    Clonesteak Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kalamazoo, MI
    It would be considered a high output cartridge. I believe it is 5.5mV output.
    The same at the red being the same cartridge.
     
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