Fascinating and thought-provoking reading. We might not have the same taste in poetry but many of the lyrics you mention are among my favourites. Yes, I remember you talked a bit about "Manmade Lake" and compared the lyrics to Tranströmer. I read him in French, and probably missed many of the subtleties, but I quite liked some of his late 70s-80s texts, from Sanningsbarriären and Det Vilda Torget in particular. I have a memory of many static images, full of references to nature. It sounds a bit like Pål's modus operandi, for sure (how many songs about seasons, trees, places...), seeing signs of what make us humans in nature's functionning. (After all, as Gary Snyder and Phil Elverum after him would say, there is no nature, humans are in nature and nature is in humans). I don't know that many Scandinavian poets, and most of them are probably closer to French and American conceptual poetry than to their own tradition. But it strikes me how even some of the most materialist and reflexive poets (I don't count Tranströmer among them) still have a link to this natural imagery that in France would be ruled out as something too lyric and cliché. Which is interesting: I cannot judge Scandinavian poetry only through my own concerns. We do not live in the same setting, we have no such dramatic landscapes here, we do not have such a tradition of the "cabin", etc. If we want to express a deeper understanding of humans' feelings or situations, we will not look for equivalents in the "natural world", because we think that it would be too simplistic. I do not necessarily think it is a good thing. Ecological concerns are harder to get when you don't care about what is "outside". It took me some time to get over that ban, and some of my strongest reading experiences lately stem from the so-called "nature writing". But that's how it is. Image is another one (after the mess that was Surrealism as an hegemonic movement - never really embracing the question of language, its revolutionary ambitions turned into some neo-Romantic ideology) and religion. What interests me about the Scandinavian poets I know is that they don't have such problems with using nature imagery, metaphors in general and questionning the systems of belief, their writings being thematically broader in that respect. So my own views might evolve eventually through reading them. But the point behind all this is obviously that, in our age, reality should not be mythologized nor aethetized, but challenged, embraced, taken for what it is. Even though this does not go without contradictions regarding the fact that I am a fan of pop music and a-ha in particular, I think I still agree with that idea. I do listen to a-ha for the lyrics too, and they can ruin me an otherwise enjoyable song if I find them pointless (which, in their case, often mean loaded with metaphors that sound more like trying to fit into the rhyme than exercising a personal look on things - "Under the Makeup" is an exemple. I never considered "Forest Fire" as an enjoyable song, but the lyrics make it plain dumb to me). The problem with metaphors is that their use often turns into showing off or, even worse, being sophomoric (as you say, interestingly, about literal writing). Probably both ends of the spectrum are threatened to verge on the uninteresting. But I much prefer something factual and honest than something trying (and, more often than not, not managing) to reinvent the way we consider life. Which is not to say that I don't like abstraction or obscurity, on the contrary. I much prefer allegorical writing than actual metaphorical writing. Metaphors tend to explain themselves, while allegories requiere work from the audience. Both the descriptive "Manmade Lake", the literal "Goodbye Thompson", the almost readymade "Start the Simulator" and the cryptic "Door Ajar" could fit into that category. They hint at something grander instead of closing themselves into their own images like in "Under the Makeup" or "Tearful Girl". There are probably many ways to look at the subject, but one would be to say that lyrics fall into two categories: the one meant to match the music good (rhymes, chorus, rhythm, etc.) and the one that stand on their own. It is a simplification - every lyrics are meant to match the music good, but few manage to stand on their own. Many a-ha songs fall into the first category, probably because, as Pål often says, the music comes first. This is a good thing because a-ha's music always has a clear identity, sharp songwriting, and not two songs are alike. But this is bad because the lyrics tend to be formatted in that respect. In the wake of last year's Nobel prize, there was a big debate in the literary world here about whether or not song lyrics should be considered as literature. I don't think we should even ask the question - it is language, it is literature. Most ancient literature, after all, was oral in the first place. A song like "Cast in Steel" works perfectly as it is, with the crescendo, the chorus and everything, but of course it would be completely dumb as a poem without the music. Defining what is (good) art certainly is a challenge, and I can't completely subscribe to Aristoteles' essentialist statement. As you said context is at least as important as content, and we cannot separate art from its conditions of production AND reception. We have been talking about all of this for a while now. But in our globalized, digitalized, hyper-mediatized, industrially-entertained, post-everything world, I like to switch focus and think about creative practices as ways of interfering in this general economy of information, no more, no less - merely acting as framings for experience of various kinds and qualities. Compared to written literature, song-based popular music has other means, and can have other goals. I am not claiming any objective truth in what I am putting forward here, but language can be used to many purposes through songs, it can go back to ritualistic or even shamanic concerns (not talking about a-ha here of course, but I have become more and more interested in contemporary uses of joik or throat singing - and after all, even Jim Morrison probably saw himself in that context), it can be meant to document things (Mount Eerie for sure, but Vulnicura is another great achievement in that respect), it can be about unveiling things and opening our eyes about some invisible truths, but it can also recombine aspects of the outside world to make us sense its mechanisms in a political mode (Nicolas Jaar), stick to a thematic to see what representations it conveys and its impact in pop culture, in a slightly subversive way (Jenny Hval, Ulver), or even only embrace the right level of adrenaline to make the music work (many great songs by Rihanna work this way, simple lyrics that match the tremendous sound perfectly). a-ha's lyrics are obviously in the purest self-expressive songwriter tradition, transforming experience into something more universal through intelligent framings. I have no conclusion to this long post other than saying that I am glad they have been able to avoid overusing metaphors. Even their first album is surprizingly factual, for so young artists, with relatively simple lyrics that work well with the quite complex music. I dont know what to add for now so I'm stopping there for the moment
New interview at Super Deluxe Edition... Paul interviews Pal! The best part for me is confirmation that expanded versions of MEMS and Lifelines are coming this year: a-ha's Pål Waaktaar Savoy talks to SDE about new project 'World Of Trouble'
A good interview! Pål sounds ambivalent and unsure to which form the accoustic album will take. Perhaps they contemplate a studio-recording and will abandon the three special accoustic concerts? I'm all for that. We'll get live versions anyway and there is something constructed with this liverecording that isn't part of the real tour or even a real concert. Oh how I long for MEMS and Lifelines. This year for real? I would have thought that the market 2017 was considered almost oversaturated by Savoy, Waaktaar and a-ha releases/re-issues. This is not the first time Pål uses them and they when he speaks about a-ha. When he talks about Savoy he reversely almost always say I. “I have a new Savoy album ready”. He is not a we and us with either band?
Wow, what a response, Myker, thank you! I have been thinking about it this week but only now have time to collect my thoughts into something that makes sense to someone else at all. I can now see that I came across as the no1 champion of the metaphor which I am not. I fully agree that metaphors run a high risk of being strained, empty and adolescent. I for example think Susanne Sundfør who we both admire has examples of this. I however firmly believe in the importance of and the power in the use of imagery of all kinds and that communicating ideas and experiences through imagery, similes is something fundamentally human and often far more swift and efficient than the factual. This applies for many human activities beyond art. I reject the idea you hint that like allegory the purpose of a metaphor is to give something to be cleverly deciphered, quite the opposite. When a metaphor works it is about instant recognition and understanding. Like the Academy’s motivation to award Tranströmer the Nobel prize in literature: "because, through his condensed, translucent images, he gives us fresh access to reality. I will here add access to the experience of mystery in our world and existence you cant reach through the factual, though that sounds pretentious. However that I think explains both Tranströmer’s popularity and the love of nature metaphors in the North; some of the most rationally oriented population on the planet with very little organized religion or baroque-aesthetics (Tranströmer is very restrained) but a great love for nature, the land and outdoor life. I’m like that, an outdoor person that certainly feels connected when out and about and yes it is a kind of spirituality. This is not Pål's modus operandi at all. His lyrics are set in the summer or in the rain but often stop there. Nature seldom takes a part beyond background and embellishment. “Manmade Lake” is one of few exceptions and can be read not only existential but as having for him unusual spirituality which is highlighted through words with religious connotations like arc, reverend, wake. There is a density there which works without the music. To me Pål as a songwriter is far more influenced by American style and aesthetics than the Scandinavian, which isn’t strange. It is very audible on World of trouble for example. I don't mean American pejoratively. Nobody would be happier than I if Pål drew more inspiration from the North-American greats like Mitchell, Dylan and Cohen who often shines the brightest when they cloth the personal experiences in poetry, imagery and references. As you say it is a cultural thing and I can understand that other traditions, especially in the academic world, can find it simplistic but it is often the real deal and not meant to only embellish and beautify. The nature is important but I believe the extreme geographical position, (Helsinki, Stockholm and Oslo are on Alaskan latitude!), with attached extreme seasons is more influential and affect also the urban population. It made Finland, Sweden and Iceland the three top countries of metal-appreciation in the world. The prevalent use of darkness, winter, forests, and cold in metal lyrics can be seen as cliché and laughable for someone closer to the equator, and sometimes they are, but for a person living by the Baltic Sea (no benevolent Gulf Stream as Norway and Iceland have) the darkness and cold for months on end are something very palatable that need to be addressed. Modern times will never change that. In the Winter I find blasting some good old Emperor or Entombed more relevant than calypso. Myker, I thought of you and all this today, not the least as you mentioned the Sámi, joik and enviromentalism, when I stumbled upon this conference on Nordic music that takes place today in Oslo.Conference session on Nordic Music | Deichmanske bibliotek . I hope the event is filmed and put online. Lecturers: Nina Nielsen, Ph.D. fellow at The Norwegian Academy of Music: Black Metal Magic: Conjuring Sounds of Heritage Lost Stéphane Aubinet, Ph.D. fellow at the Department of Musicology, University of Oslo: Cohabiting With Wolves: Sámi joik and the Norwegian Environmental Policy Tore Størvold, Ph.D. fellow at the Department of Musicology, University of Oslo: Performing Dreamland: Musical Responses to Environmental Debates in Iceland Can’t both approaches coexist? My collection of art, music and books would be very thin if I removed everything that doesn’t fit your materialistic standard. And I’m not comfortable with the idea that the world and the art is progressing in a straight line and some things like metaphors, imagination, dreams, myths we now ought to have outgrown and left behind. Time and again humans pick up things scholars and trends put in the bin. Who 40 years ago could predict that metaphors and similes would live as vibrantly and relevantly as ever in rap? The fact that the greatest rappers in France, Norway, Iceland or wherever use their mother tongue is a proof of how important the directness of imagery and the impressive wit in a word-play are. Vulnicura sure is a personal documentation of events but the form it takes is not diaristic but a poetic interpretation of the feelings. Just look at the song-titles, the art work and the films. All are archetypes, metaphores and images. Björk has expressed how limited and boxed she has experienced it when people can't get past the autobiographical aspect of it. She has also said that she more and more aims for the universal in form of archetypes. The extreme diaristic and autobiographical approach has complications. I'm fascinated by and admire Phil's new work but the interview left me slightly uneasy. Death Is Real: Mount Eerie’s Phil Elverum Copes With Unspeakable Tragedy | Pitchfork . In his art Phil deals with his experiences, his family, his grief, his attitude to death and nothingness and all that is as it should be. But in this and other interviews that can't be seen as part of the art he in detail exposes another person in her most naked, private and vulnerable time. Phil's conclusion is that death is meaningless but the glimpses he gives about the person to which this particularly death belongs, reveal someone who constantly and feverishly, even with all kinds of esoteric methods, was searching for meaning and relief.
Thank you so much for your reply! I won't have the time now to discuss in depths your anthropological take on art as image-creation, but you are right that my arguments might be a bit too simplistic. You are right about Vulnicura too obviously. I am still drawn to the factual and literal (and isn't the Scandinavian Knausgård one of the most radical exemples of that?), and the fact that much more people read novels than poetry might be another hint in that direction? The fact that Mount Eerie's new record gets such a (deserved) positive critical and public reception might be telling too. There is a very interesting interview where Phil is asked about what he might do in the future, and here is his answer: And another one about the influence of Knausgård: I can relate to that (even though I will miss his atmospheric work). It sounds like something a conceptual artist would say, but at the same time, Phil's music (under any moniker, and he also said that this diaristic way of writing is closer to his early Microphones work) remains extremely sensuous. I am not sure he has reached the point where he can "engage the brain". Or maybe he has but it remains so personal there is not much to engage with, except personal loss and grief. I wish he had included reflexive lyrics about the whole thing he was doing (feeding Geneviève's story to the audience). The audience is completely absent - so the engagement is still minimal. Here is a more detailed text about where I come from in terms of how I consider poetry. It was written by Jena Osman 15 years ago, and she sums it up much better than me. It was first published in the Swedish magazine OEI by the way: U B U W E B :: After Language Poetry -- Jena Osman Anyway, I will keep thinking about it, and in relation with a-ha lyrics too - they obviously have nothing to do with that conceptual frame. And I don't mean that negatively, I don't think the distinction between art for the brain/art for the body or emotions should be pushed too hard. I like when both are reconciled, one way or another. a-ha never was and will never be a political band. Their work is about taking slices of personal experience and turning them into a song, which I am completely ok with. Sometimes it hits me as accurate and true, sometimes it just sounds bland or dumb (hello Ole Sverre Olsen), rarely it sounds brilliant - also because of the music that adds to the evocative power. What do you think of "Giving Up the Ghost" - one of the recent lyrics that comes to mind regarding this whole discussion? Thank you very much for the link about the Conference session on Nordic music, it seems really interesting, yes. Hopefully it will be documented in some way.
I forgot (maybe) the most obvious. As far as "poetic poetry" is concerned (as opposed to conceptual or critical apparatus, which is what Jena Osman stands for), I feel very close to what could be found in last year's movie Paterson. Most of it was written by Ron Padgett but it was a nice tribute to William Carlos Williams, whose own poetry (including in his masterpiece of the same title) could be described in the exact same terms as Knausgård by Elverum:"telling the banal details and hoping they add up to a deeper statement". I think at his best Pål (sometimes in Savoy too) happens to be close to that.
I'm actually also drawn to the factual and the literal, not the least when it comes to novels like the brilliant Knausgårds. Your initial post and my current reading coaxed me into try a more extreme position than I actually have, but that's good. Some serious wintertime metal-binging also helped, but now with spring coming I will probably soon sober up and become my rational self again. I am also a bit fed up with the many current examples we have of ”middle aged men sharing their oh so very honest diaristic novels and lyrics” (of course not counting Phil as one of them.) It is true that most people read novels and not poetry, but if we call lyrics literature poetry suddenly turns into the most consumed, loved and shared form of literature. Ask any person anywhere in the world too recite something and many will give some imagery-heavy lines from a song or their holy scripture of choice and not something ‘honest’ off Sun Kil Moon’s latest. What’s most fascinating is that many likely would recognise the words. It is also true that Scandinavia has a strong tradition and appreciation for realism. You could probably say that Nordic culture/popular culture, and perhaps society, has an unusual strong tension between the very rational, realistic and the need to express and consume the lyrical, elevated and also the very superficial. Your analysis of Phil's work is spot on, especially the part about reflexiveness. I'm sure that this turning point in his life will reappear many times in his art and that he in the future will be able to ”engage his brain”. (Vulnicura is actually good example of that, though I don't mean to compare two so very different magnitudes of grief). It will definitely be very interesting to follow. The audience and media reaction over time too, will this private and sad time stick and colour the perception of the art forever? (Björk’s fear). No it is difficult to imagine a-ha take any kind of political or activist stance, but if there was a genuine spark I wouldn’t mind them doing so in their solo-work, quite the contrary. That however would have happened years ago if it had come naturally to them. How exciting it would have been if Pål tonight had posted a song he’d written and recorded the last month in response to something current! First Aid Kit did exactly that a couple of weeks ago with “You are the problem here” that both musically and lyrically has a different style than their usual. Pål has said that he’s worried about the political situation in his adopted homeland but being an artist does not automatically mean that he is more worried or even engaged than most. And we have the thing we have discussed before; songs that mature or expire in his fridge for years. It is telling that when he wants to reflect the political climate today Pål doesn’t sit down like FAK or even fellow veterans Depeche Mode and write a fresh angry song, he picks up material from 1991! (a lovely song but that is not the point here). A lot of the things we have been discussing I would love to see more of in Pål’s late career solo-work and I believe would make it stronger. The slices of personal experiences are as you say his modus operandi and I think he could draw inspiration from all the artists we have mentioned and be more personal and diaristic, more conceptual/framed and most of all more here and now. Slices of personal experiences also are only as interesting and universal as the author have the craft to make them or as interesting and universal as the slices are to begin with. I don’t think it is a coincidence that of Pål’s later lyrics I so clearly prefer the more cryptic or existential while the domestic story based such as “Weathervane”, “World of trouble”. gives me very little. We know little of his woes but I have thought that as a songwriter Pål is fortunate that his band and bandmates have given him some chance to experience heartbreak, jealousy and anger over the years. Morten is also interesting. The lyrics on Brother are a step up and most importantly they feel natural coming from him. But I have wondered why so little of his extreme love and knowledge of nature and attached, actually often björkish, philosophical and educational musings doesn’t come through.
Poor etiquette but I will quote myself: Yes the song definitely sounds as if Magne the winter 14/15 was listening to some scandi-metal in his car driving home from a meeting concerning the resurrected a-ha. No I don’t believe that his heart and mind are pouring out from those wintery metaphors, but I on the other hand also believe that the song reflect real thoughts and feelings and the imagery is what you actually will see driving wintertime in Norway. There is an obvious nod to DM, not the least the guitar, but the song itself is electro-metal, (with an organ it could also fit on Ten Lovesongs). I like that it is something lyrically new to a-ha. The lyrics don’t come across as pastiche or strained but as playful. When I first heard it I immediately thought of “Porcelain heart” by Opeth as the lyrics share many words and phrases and also part of what I believe is the theme- the band. “Porcelain heart” touch on our discussion about the factual/metaphorical as I understand two real and very serious happenings inspired it: the suicide of an ex-girlfriend and band members leaving or being forced to leave. I still believe that the seviour part in GUTG could ‘be about’ the negative tail and pressure the band brings, like people dissecting them as I do here. No relevance to anyone else than me I guess but also that and the use of funeral pyre-lines actually have a connection to Opeth and their song “The Wilde flowers” off Sorceress. The album deals with the negative aspects of love and it is at least obvious to me that besides romantic love the demanding relationship artist-audience -creativity also is in there. “Like a trail of insects to me/I watch them from afar/Feeding, breeding, scheming/Tell me I am wrong” One of the things some fans are upset about is actually Åkerfelt’s more and more personal and factual lyrical style.
This whole discussion about a-ha's lyrics has made me realize that my English is not really good enough to have a strong opinion. I have enjoyed reading your discussion (and I recognize some of the terms from when I used to study literature at university ), but I think that my English would have to be much better in order to have anything useful to add to it. I am good enough to recognize obviously bad lyrics, but not to argue why something is good. Right now I am listening to a Nobel Prize winning song writer (guess who? ), and I cannot say why I like the lyrics so much - just that I like them. Right now I am anxiously waiting for news about the Norway concerts in June, hoping that there might be a way to get tickets. And of course I will be excited to see which songs they choose for the acoustic album/tour, and what they do with them. The teaser videos on Facebook make me think that they are trying to find different some "new" live songs - which songs are you all hoping for?
I'd love to see them do Manhattan Skyline in a style similar to the Kings of Convenience treatment of the song - I think it could be beautiful esp as Paul and Magne are so good at backing vocals.
I will perhaps get tickets to one of the shows in Oslo next year. This for them now traditional spoon-feeding of dates and countries is frustrating though. Will they later announce for us better dates in Amsterdam or Paris, cities we rather would spend a couple of days in? Oslo in February is not my idea of a nice and invigorating getaway. Right now I’m mostly thrilled by the prospect of getting new a-ha songs 2017. It would be a nice and unexpected surprise if they presented a new up-tempo and energetic acoustic song!
I am considering getting tickets for Oslo next year too. As the tour looks like it will be the usual big venues, I'd love at least to experience it once in Norway. Anyone knows how is the Spektrum in terms of sound? And what sort of tickets (seating, standing) would you recommend?
I bought a couple myself this morning. I was in the Spektrum last year for their shows and don't remember having any negative thoughts on the sound - it's not as cavernous as the likes of the O2 in London etc. There's no standing for these shows btw - certainly not in Oslo. It's an acoustic show so, in my opinion, you need to try to be as close as possible to the stage to really connect with the band. They've announced a show in London this afternoon and claim that it'll be the only UK show on the tour.
I have been to a few concerts in Oslo Spektrum, but usually on the floor in front of the stage. I have never thought about bad sound there at least, and I have never heard complaints about it either. I would go for tickets close to the stage as well. We have already bought tickets for Berlin, and I am waiting to see if that will be it.
Saw them there on the Foot Of The Mountain Tour, November 2009. We had the lowest seats behind the floor and actually right behind the mixing desk. Perfect seats, especially if you're wife is 1,60
Thank you all! I took a couple tickets as close as the stage as I could - they sell fast. Good, and it almost looks like this will actually be the smallest venue of the whole tour, so I am very much looking forward to that first a-ha-experience in Norway.
Great analysis! It made me listen to the song in a new way, and I like that. I am not a big fan of the verses, but the part you mention is really good. Maybe that's what you meant, but I am reminded of the famous early days posters of the band too. But beyond that, it could definitely be about the band, as many of Magne's lyrics since 2004, including "Objects in the mirror" which works as some kind of diptych with GUTG. But what do you make of the line "To vow me into silence" then?
”The end of the affair” is another song I believe should be sorted into the band-lyrics category. Fertile ground to both Pål and Magne it seems. Yeah, the posters are part of the picture too. The line "To vow me into silence" – their fans and the whole apparatus 14/15 wanting a-ha to respawn and not interested in hearing anyone say that none of the reasons for putting down the band actually had disappeared? Knowing of your taste I certainly understand why this is not your perfect cup of tea but one thing to appreciate in my view it is that Magne carried out the idea with this new style from the beginning to the end and all the components fit as a unit: vibe, arrangements, subject matter and lyrical style, grave vocals. It suits CIS very well too I think. So yes I think the metaphors and images in this case have a good purpose. Speaking of this, what is your opinion on the last nature-rich verse in “Open face”? First the song portrays a ‘real’ situation but when the two first very good verses and chorus are done it is as if Pål thought: “This song needs to be longer but I can’t figure out how to develop it or how write a good middle 8, lets do a third verse and just play it acoustic” Then he just wrote something empty (adolescent even) with oceans, clouds, meadows, storm, grass and waves! Unexplainable really. No Pål is certainly not good in handling that style and should refine his factual writing and take better care with the lyrics he releases under his own name.
And I forgot- audience, band and apparatus figuring out or in the know of what makes Magne tick and what would turn staying out of a-ha an impossible option for him.
Interesting point regarding GUTG. And, yes, band history and band life is definitely a fertile ground for both Magne and Pål. It has been at least since "Lamb to the slaughter" I would say? The interesting point is that this very subject can illustrate our whole conversation here: there are very (very) literal ones (like "The Company man", "Don't do me any favours", "Halfway through the tour"), and more imagined ones ("Lamb to the Slaughter", "GUTG", probably others too). "Shadow Endeavors" could be somewhere in the middle. As for "Open Face", well I guess there are several layers. I am not particularly convinced by any verse - especially the last one for sure - but I truly love the chorus. It is a bit like what you said about Door Ajar: it works on a difference of scale (face/space/place/feeling) that is really subtle and effective. But yes, I am not sure the juxtaposition with the verses adds it anything valuable. Maybe if he had sticked to the factual tone of the two first ones it would have been better as you say, but at the same time I don't even find them interesting. On the other hand, the lyrics for the first verse sounded like it could be about a-ha when we first heard of them back in March 2015, so I feel a bit attached to them, in a childish way. I like you profile pic I find it hard to listen to anything else since I got it. A couple of tracks on here sound like the perfect meeting between a-ha and DM, and it certainly is a more achieved and ambitious true "pop" record than anything a-ha ever managed to do - sadly. Strangely enough, there are a couple of tracks that bring to mind the mood they reached for at the time of Memorial Beach (groovy bass, female backing vocals, dark atmosphere infused in American mythology). So I say it out loud here: everyone on this thread should check Ulver's The Assassination of Julius Caesar (it's out on Friday)
I just read for the first time recently: "On a lighter note, one of the famous quotes of this period came from Waaktaar: commenting on Def Leppard's success with Hysteria, he scoffed that a-ha were more rock & roll!" I've been an a-ha fan for 16 years and I've never heard this before. Anyone know what he exactly said?
