Paradigm Subwoofer added - trouble balancing with existing system.

So I figured I'd seek out some device here before calling out my hifi shop and paying them to come out. Running a Denon AVR 2300W receiver with Paradigm Monitor 11 v7 series speakers (left, right, center channel). Italready sounded pretty damn good, but we decided to pick up the sub 12 in the series Paradigm® | Monitor Series | Monitor SUB 12 | Overview .

Now I should preface this by stating that the Denon has the Audyssey calibration setup system. We hooked up the sub and went through recalibrating but couldn't get the sub to do much of anything, even with heavy bass tracks. We then discovered that we had to turn off the Audyssey to get the sub to properly work.Well, now we can't seem to get the balance right between music and tv.

I don't suppose anyone else has this particular setup and could help me out?

 

Do you have the Monitor 11s set to Large in the speaker settings? You'll probably need to set them to small and, hopefully, you'll have a way to set the high pass to something like 40 or 50 Hz (they can do that easily, I used to have a pair) and set the low-pass to the sub around the same point. I remember my old Denon wasn't quite so flexible in this area and Audyssey always tended to want to set my sub low-pass to something like 80 Hz which is absurd with a pair of towers like the Monitor 11s.

Just a thought.

 

We did eventually figure out we had to set the towers to small, but that didn't fix the boominess. Tonight I turned the sub down to -4 and that seemed to help, at least with the tv. Haven't played any music since I did that. I'll give it a listen tomorrow and see how it sounds. I'd hate to defeat Audyssey, which has been helpful up until now.....

 

For whatever it's worth and this is definitely a "your mileage may vary" situation, but in my few years with Audyssey I did not find it to be helpful in the room and setup I was trying to use it in. I forget what level I had but it was relatively high in their "line" of room correction levels. I found that turning it off and manually adjusting speaker distances, crossover points, and integrating the sub by ear to be better performing (though I can't say it would measure better) than the automated Audssey setup.

 

So my report back is that I can seem to get it close, but not perfect. Switching between music and tv requires some tweaking each time, which is kind of a pain in the ass. Still considering calling my hi-fi guys (props to Hear No Evil) to see if they can come out and "calibrate" everything for me. Unless anyone else has other suggestions..........

 

What is still not right between switching?

 

The bass levels have to be turned way down for tv, then turned back up for music. Could be the room, could be user error, lol.

 

Can you independently adjust your audio setting preference per input?

At least for my Pioneer receiver, I can enable and disable features per input. For example, I can turn on eq for HDMI input 1 and turn off eq for HDMI input 2, etc.

If your receiver have that capability, then simply tune each input based on your preference.

 

BTW, how do you connect your TV and music to your receiver?

Also, how do you playback TV vs music? Both 3.1 playback?

 

Possibly, but the manual isn't super helpful. I could look on their website I suppose....

 

HDMI cables for the tv, cable, and dvr. RCA cables for my older Technics turntable.

 

I see. So, do you use same 3.1 playback for TV and music?

 

Hell, I don't know. I'm not super tech savvy, so I wouldn't even know where to look for that info, lol.

 

Haha, it could be that for your TV, your receiver is default to surround sound playback which would involve the sub if you set the speakers to small.

For your music playback, it could be default to pure stereo playback and thus you are missing the sound from subwoofer. You need to check the front display of your receiver to check. Then, simply use your remote to change the sound setting to normal stereo, which should trigger the subwoofer.

If in doubt, read the manual for more detail about how to find out which sound mode you are in.

 

Setting up a subwoofer properly without the right equipment is one of the toughest audio things you'll experience.

 

Can you elaborate?

 

First of all i am very familiar with the paradigm monitor 11s- they are serious kick ass rock and roll speakers with deep bass that wanders well into the sub bass territory. They also sound smooth and work with a wide variety of music- i recommend them to anyone in the market for this type of speaker.
Secondly- ditch the room correction- 2 reasons. 1) if you set the monitor 11s to small- you are wasting them. you may as well use 5" bookshelf speakers. 2) it is a band-aid for people that do not have the patience to set a sub up correctly- it is not capable of integrating it into your system the way you can by manually adjusting (with the right technique).
The bad news is that your sub does not have high level inputs. Subs that use the preamp as input cannot integrate as well but it sounds like you are way off the mark regardless.
The good news is that it has a continuous phase angle adjustment which is the key ingredient for aligning the main base pulses with the subwoofer bass pulses to avoid cancellations or summing (nasty one note peaks).
Another bit of bad news- the sub does not have a reverse polarity switch. I have found it difficult to integrate a sub without reversing the polarity pulse. But you should still give it a try.
Get some music with lots of sub bass- lots of music may not even activate a sub- this is normal- find some that does.
Set the crossover to approx. 45 Hz (approx. cutoff of the mon 11's).
Set the level of the sub slightly higher than normal.
Set the phase angle control to 180 degrees.
Play a variety of music. Can you localize the sub or does it seem to be in the center? Centered is good.
Listen to see if you can hear any peaks. Peaks sound like notes that are louder than all the other notes.
If you hear any peaks, adjust the phase angle knob 1/8 turn headed back to zero.
Listen again. Continue adjusting the phase angle control by ~ 1/8 turn until the peak disappears. Then leave it, also take note of the position.
Now that the response is smooth, adjust only the level control. Bring it down until the music sounds balanced and not dominated by by the bass. This is the only control that you should adjust over the next few days until you are happy with the overall sound.

 

Wow, thanks! Sounds like a lot of work but will give it a try!

 

I could but it's so often a waist of time.
Direct reply me if you like.

 

Yep it's a lot of work, but worth it.