"John is in fact the leader of the group" - Paul McCartney, 10/28/62

Perfect summary, I think exactly the same.

 

A tangent, but somewhat related question:

I've read in previous pages that it was Paul who drove the band's direction towards psychedelia on Pepper, and that he pretty much spearheaded the overall direction of the band from 1967 to the end. Is there any idea of what direction John would've preferred to have gone in this period overall if he had continued to be "the leader"? How did he view Pepper, for example? Get Back? Abbey Road?

 

I don't know if someone said that, but I wouldn't agree. The first Beatle psychedelic songs were written by John (Rain, I'm Only Sleeping, Tomorrow Never Knows, even She Said She Said). But I think it was the direction they all wanted to go: Paul's Yellow Submarine and certain aspects of Paperback Writer seem to point to that. The most psychedelic songs in Pepper are John's (LSD, Mr. Kite, A Day in the Life)

Paul lead the Sgt. Pepper project, but that's a different thing.

 

John helped out with the lyrics, but it's Paul's idea. John himself said it was Paul's song.

 

Yellow Submarine is not 'Paul' it's a co-write, John did the verse, Paul the chorus.

 

In ONE interview, years later. But John AND Paul BOTH said they wrote it together. John wrote the music and lyric of the opening verse.

 

john formed the band and quitted the band. paul knew it. and we are all better for it.

 

I'm not sure if "we are all better for it".

 

John used to attribute himself more credit for the songs he helped with, so if at any time he said it was Paul's song (and it coincides with Paul's memory of the song coming to him when he was about to fall asleep), I'm pretty sure it was. But sure, John helped out a bit.

 

Pure conjecture here, but I reckon Lennon had no problem with the "psychedelic" direction The Beatles took in 1967. Certainly during that era he wrote three of his most 'classic' songs: "Strawberry Fields Forever", "A Day In The Life" and "I Am The Walrus". In retrospect Lennon tended to look down on the whole "Pepper myth"- witness his comments about how "It worked because we said it worked" etc. He wasn't crazy about his own material on the album for the most part because it lacked true inspiration- after all, he had to resort to a circus poster, newspaper articles, a Corn Flakes advert and a picture Julian drew for ideas. He certainly couldn't keep up with Paul at that time, and I think John had a hard time wrapping his head around the idea that Paul was essentially stealing his thunder not only as far as songwriting went but leadership of the group. Lennon might have eventually accepted the idea, but he probably didn't like it very much...

As for the "Get Back" project, Lennon liked the idea of stripped down, "live in the studio" Beatles music- after all he was the one who told George Martin he didn't want any of Martin's "jiggery pokery" on the album (ultimately, Phil Spector's brand of jiggery pokery would be perfectly okay though). But again, Lennon was lacking inspiration at that time, needing to pull old songs out of mothballs ("One After 909", "Across The Universe") and requiring Paul and George to finish off newer songs ("Don't Let Me Down"). Lennon's heroin addiction at this time plus general apathy towards the band were definitely factors. In spite of the fact that during contemporary interviews promoting the album and whatnot, Lennon seemed in favour of Abbey Road but I don't think he was a big fan of the album or the idea of being a Beatle in general by that point.

In Lennon's own words, "I started the band. I disbanded it. It's as simple as that."

 

OK, so you obviously didn't listen to the interview I posted. John AND Paul TOGETHER talking about the writing of Yellow Submarine. It really won't hurt you to listen and learn. Paul dreamed up the chorus. John wrote the verse. It was a 50/50 co-write.

 

Yes, I did. Paul's idea, Paul's song, John helped out, it's what I said. John would never renounce a 50% credit in an interview if he considered the song half his.

 

It's not what you said, it's a co-write. What can't you understand about songwriting credit? John is writing a song with the opening "In the town where I was born, lived a man who sailed to sea" and later on, Paul has an idea for "We all live in a Yellow Submarine". Paul reminds John of his song and they fit them together to make one song, called "Yellow Submarine". That is a 50/50, not 'John helping out'. If they'd called the song "In the Town Where I was Born" but it was exactly the same song, would that therefore mean John wrote it and Paul helped out?

He removed 100% of the credit for some songs in the same interview claiming he didn't write them, but of course he did. But you continually refer to a later interview where John happens to say he 'helped' while dismissing a contemporary interview where John AND Paul talk about co-writing. You have a very odd selective method.

 

Not at all, I just don't interpret the first interview the same way you do. If you put together that interview and later ones by John and Paul, you can come to the conclusion I exposed: Paul's song, Paul's idea, John helped out.

 

I don't recall John dismissing his material from this period. He just dismissed the "Pepper as concept album" notion (which happened to be Paul's idea). 1967 has to be some of Lennon's greatest songwriting. Although not nearly as prolific as other years, the songs are incredible. Lucy, ADITL, Walrus, All You Need Is Love, verses to Baby You're a Rich Man, and I personally love Kite.

 

Filler? On Revolver?!! Are you kidding?

 

Yellow Submarine is a Paul song that John helped out with.

 

I think we are. Everything has its time and place and if The Beatles had continued on several more years, into the 1970s, they would've taken a misstep and their legacy wouldn't be as larger than life as it is. By going out on a highpoint they cemented their status. Can you imagine The Beatles - a studio band - being as culturally relevant in the era of Arena Rock? I can't, nor do I want to.

 

Arena rock. Awful.

 

Well, they did play Shea Stadium.

 

Yeah, sure, if that's so, then We Can Work It Out is a John song that Paul helped out with.

 

Enough already. DONOVAN wrote it, and Paul and John helped out a bit...

 

I was meaning that it worked out amazingly well. The band, the solo years, everything. The music and good times that were made. I know my life would be very dull indeed if not of that happened.

 

There's no need to interpret anything in that March 1967 interview, since their statements are completely unambiguous:
Q: "John, earlier before we started recording, you said it was in effect written as two separate songs."

JOHN: "Yeah. I seem to remember, like, the submarine... the chorus bit, you coming in with it."

PAUL: "Yeah."

JOHN: "And wasn't the other bit something that I had already going, and we put them together?"

PAUL: "Well, yeah. Right. Yeah."

JOHN: "And it made sense to make it into..."

PAUL: "Yeah, the bit... (sings melody to verse) 'Dut-ta-da, da-dut-ta-da.'"

JOHN: "With Ringo in mind, again."

John clearly states that he wrote the melody to the verses, and that Paul brought in the chorus, and they combined them into one song. Paul agrees with this recollection. Musically, the song was a 50-50 cowrite.

Some 30 years later, Paul claimed he'd come up with all the music. But certainly more credence should be given to a joint recollection by both songwriters a few months after the fact, compared to a memory offered by just Paul 30 years later. As I noted upthread, Paul's changing recollections about the writing of Helter Skelter and his failure to remember jamming with Elvis are good illustrations of how memories can shift and distort over time, particularly when the person remembering has been a heavy pot user in the interim.

In 1980, Lennon said he "helped" with the lyrics, but that the song's title and "inspiration" came from Paul. So lyrically Paul was the primary (but not sole) writer. In any case, when half of the song's melody came from John and he also contributed to the lyrics, it's not accurate to suggest it was a Paul song that Lennon merely "helped" with.

 

That interview is not a reliable source. Why? Well, Lennon-McCartney are receiving an award and happy to maintain the fiction of a co-write. You can tell they are not being serious. The old Vaudeville is responsible..Mr McCartney. When they no longer needed to maintain the fiction, the truth came out. Multiple sources attest to this. See Beatles Bible for a quick summary.