Project Signature 10 or McIntosh MT-5

The MT2 is not even close to a "Clearaudio ovation in Mc garb", they have zero shared parts. If anything, it's closest to Clearaudio's entry-level table, the Concept.

 

All Mac phono stages that I have heard are excellent and I disagree that you can get a "much" better phono stage for $2000 than the one in that is already in your Mac integrated. IMO it will take more than $2000 to push the Mac phono stage out of the game ~ I would say $3000 just to start noticing big improvements.

As Rolltide mentioned, I think the arm is better on the Pro-ject, but the build quality of the Mac is excellent as well ~ not to mention ... the full effect of the Mac stack is super cool! If I had the bucks I would stick with the MT-5 and ditch the cart as time and budget allow. Then over time think about a used C2300 (awesome phono stage) and MC275

 

http://project-audio.com/inhalt/en/reviews/PJ-Phono-Signature10-Test-LP-0514-EN.pdf

Okay, 5.000 Euro does not sound
like a „special offer“,
but this turntable surely fits into the
10.000 to 20.000 Euro class.

 

Yep. This is the one I was considering. It is $7000 US, and comes with a $2800 US cart! Kind of an unbelievable value, and WHY I am having such a hard time with the MAC...

ALSO, @beowulf, a long time user and respected technician on AVS, said the SAME thing about my 5200 built in pre, some time ago. If I recall, he said I would have to spend $2-$3k just to get any improvement, and more to really hear a major difference.

I can't thank you all enough. I have a LOT to chew on. Not sure what route I will go. Waiting to hear from my local shop on what they will do for me in terms of incentives. I have done MAJOR buying with them, and they treat me VERY well, so maybe their "add ins" will help me make my choice? Who knows.

Either way, just LOOK AT THAT PRO-JECT!!! IT IS A BEAST!!!! lol. Also, FWIW, it has balanced outputs...

 

^although, i would need a step up transformer to use that cart. It is low output MC, and the MA5200 only supports MM or HO MC... so add a few more dollars to the mix. *sigh

 

If the internal on your Mac doesn't support a LOMC, that is all the reason you need to get an external.


Here is what's happening on the the inside of BAT PK-10, one of these just sold on ebay for $2,100 this week. As you can see, all of this will not fit inside of the chassis of any integrated amp or preamp. The flexibility of customizing the gain and load setting to match your cart of choice is very meaningful. While I agree with our friend upthread that is fond of the internal on the Mac, it's a bottleneck for SQ if you are looking at reference level tables and carts.

 

Yes, Concept I had meant. (It was late in the night when I posted...)

 

As a Pro-Ject man myself you know where I'd be putting my money!
Even its more expensive tables represent the very best value for money. The X-tension 12 and 10 are just below the Signature range but my "10" came fitted with a £1700 Ortofon Cadenza Black M/C included within the £3350 retail price. That's a serious bit of kit for the money.

 

@Dennis0675 would the other option be to simply get a great MM cart for now, use my Mac internal phono, maximize what i have while getting a new table I love... then in the future, I can always add an external phono stage and go buck wild with carts? Amirite?

Perhaps an Ortofon 2M Black? Step up from my Sumiko blue, I think?

 

Seems like you really want to get a new table and I don't want to discourage you from doing so. My feeling is that the cart and the phono (and the record) are really what you are hearing. The table is either silent or adding nonmusical sounds for the most part. Once you reach a certain level of neutrality or silence from your table, improving on that gets very incremental and very expensive. I also don't think you get the most out of those expensive and incremental improvements in your table if you don't have a cart and phono that is at the same level of quality.

I like the if not love the 2m black but at the price, it can be beat by a LOMC. If I was a betting man, I would say that you will ultimately end up with all of these upgrades, it's just a question of the order in which you do them. In my mind, $4,000 in a cart and phono will make a bigger impact on the day it arrives than a new $5,000 table. If you have that cart and phono in place when the $5,000 table arrives, you will better hear why you just spent $5,000 on a turntable.

 

Around the price of the Ortofon 2M Black I would look at the Dynavector 10x5 or for a few hundred more the Dynavector 20xl2. MM ortofon carts to me seem to run a bit hot on the top end.

 

Yeah... I agree. It is ALL coming. Just a matter of what order LOL!

 

I agree it is a bit hot but that also makes it a lot of fun. I think it a great cart for most people to experience, I moved on when I wore mine out and I'm glad I did. The Hanna MC seems to be the popular choice at the price of the 2mb.

 

The reality is, incremental costs are easier to incur. If I DON'T upgrade the table now with the funds I have, I "may" never get to it... To put it even more plainly, I am (luckily) in a position where I can always afford a few hundred bucks, maybe even a thousand. A high end turntable, however, may always lose out to more "important" purchases like vacations, home improvement, etc... I recently sold a few bottles of whisky at auction, made a few $$ profit, and it is "found" money in that regard. So i feel like if I don't upgrade the table now, I may never. And that may not be a BAD thing, either. Just a reality. I will (hopefully) always be in a position to grab a nice cart or preamp etc... They are less invasive of my life and budget, if not at all.

 

There is certainly logic and reason to getting the heavy lifting out of the way first. That is really more of long term outlook than immediate impact.

Since the word McIntosh is in the thread title and that attracts fans of the brand, I say this with all do respect. With the T5 you are paying a premium for the styling and the brand.



$4,000. Detached motor, 3d printed tonearm with on the fly VTA adjustment and a 28lb aluminum platter.

 

If I were you, I'd look into the Rogue Ares phono pre and the Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC Star. Both are $2k and both are amazing. Another great phono pre at $1k is the PS Audio NuWave Phono converter which gives you the added functionality of an ADC which can output DSD or PCM to your computer.

 

There was a great thread here that I found regarding chain of importance... seems as though (while there were differences of opinion), the most agreed upon chain was TT, Arm, Pre, cart. However, others placed the PRE at the top of the chain. hat was agreed on universally, is the synergy of all of these pieces, being most important. Interesting. Like everything in this hobby, it will be all about what MY elf ears, hear...

 

Exactly. Hit some good dealers, be patient/methodical, and let your ears be your guide.

Internet forum advice can be very good, but by itself can only take you so far.

Pls do report back with your experiences. I'm sure they'll be interesting.
.

 

My experience, which may not be relevant to you, tells me that you should go with your gut feeling get the one that was the first to attract you.

Emotions play a large part in purchasing A/V and especially audio equipment so go with your feelings.

 

Can I just say, as a new member, this has got to be the BEST experience I have ever had on a forum, in 20 years. Thank you all for your kind, candid, and valid thoughts and suggestions. I appreciate it more than you know

 

DANG! If you got the funds for that Signature 10.....go for it...dont look back!

 

Well... decision "sort of" made. I have done a lot of biz with my local shop, and they made me a deal I couldn't refuse.

Suffice to say I am getting the MT-5, a much upgraded cart (tbd in the days ahead) and the ability to give it all back at full value if I decide it's not for me

So maybe a better way to say it is, I'm auditioning it?

I know it's not the "popular" choice, but I wanted to hear it for myself, in my rig, and now I can with zero risk

More to come!

Either way, I have decided that for the holidays, a tube phono stage is in the cards, as it is simply too alluring to not do!

Thanks everyone!!

 

Is there any chance you can get a test run of the Signature 10?

 

Yes. I think the MT5 is closer to the Ovation, but the Ovation has optical speed control, which I'm pretty sure the MT5 lacks (though the MT10 has it).

 

Played with it. I know it's silly, but the 30 second start up time would quickly annoy the **** out of me LOL. It's absolutely massive and beautiful. I just wasn't enamored with the start up time. And I hate the hinged cover; I hate the same one on mine.

I also like the idea that the Mac stuff holds some value. I know, it's another silly "thing". But it's true.

We shall see. For the $$, if I don't hear angels singing, and I might not, I shall return it.