Newbie Needs help: System Upgrade

Hi all,

Longtime reader, first post, please be gentle. I need help thinking thru some system upgrades.

Past History: Grew up in a musical family, Dad and Uncle both serious audiophiles (and in small town Ohio, that could not have been easy). I was an Opera major in college, flirted a bit with doing it professionally, avoided that route, but have a very good ear. Currently have a very basic audio system (Sony amp/tuner, Sony Blu Ray (I stream almost 100% thru Netflix and Amazon), Sony Bravia 36" TV , and a recently deceased JVC 5 disc cartridge CD player (from, oh, 1988). Paired with Wharfdale Diamond 10s. I have small older house with 12x18 LR with 4 doors and 3 windows. I do not have a lot of floor space to content with, but I live in Boston, so I have access to some very good audio stores.

Current situation: I have always been thinking about upgrading my audio/visual systems. But I'm in the middle of a major house renovation, so I keep putting it off. But, my 30 (gulp) year old CD player died yesterday, so now I am seriously considering this is the time to upgrade.

I want (audio first as a priority)
1. A carousel CD changer (please don't hate me, and please don't debate me, this is a must have) that I need asap. I listen to jazz, opera, and rock/alt from 1950-2000 (even some disco and rarely some good recent stuff like Gomez). No techo, no country, no hip hop.
2. Eventually, a DAC (for when I eventually rip those gazillion CDs...in like 2022)
3. A Blu Ray player (been thinking about moving to an Oppo) that can stream
4. An audio first amplifier, that I could potentially route my DVD and DAC sound thru.
5. Either smaller floor or bookshelf speakers (given my space limitations)

The interesting twist...is that, if I want it, I can have any/all of my Dad's old equipment (dating from from 2000 or earlier, I would think) including:
a. Hafler Iris preamplifier (2)
b. Hafler XL600 Power Amp
c. JVC Audio/Video Controller RX-770VBK
d. Marantz digital compact disc changer cc-52
e. Nakamichi RX-202 Unidirectional Auto Reverse Cassette Deck
f. Technics SA-R377 Quartz Synthesizer AM/FM Stereo Receiver
g. Technics SL-PC505 Multi Compact Disc Player
h. Pair of Infinity Quantum 2
g. Rotel RCC1055 if I want it (from 2003, in very good condition, for cheap)

No idea of current status, they have been boxed up for a good 5-10 years, but my dad took impeccable care of everything.

I travel almost 100% for work, so my system needs to be virtually plug and play....not a ton of time to clean up gear (though I am happy to pay someone to do it). I need the CD player yesterday, everything else I can buy whenever the mood strikes me. I don't necessarily need blow out the windows power, but want vinyl like warmth and clarity (I grew up in the age of vinyl and still remember my Dad's reel to reel player).

Budget, probably $3-$5k, all in.

Thoughts? Let 'er rip...and thanks in advance.

 

Your question is like "what options should I get in my car? " You Listed a lot of stuff. First piece of advice: your patience will be rewarded. Don't go out and spend $3-$5k on everything in one shot. You have a great number of options here to build a really great high end system over the next couple of years.

My suggestion is you find the best high end Brick and mortar establishments in your area. Audition a number of speaker, amplifier turntable, cd, etc. equipment combinations.

Next, put together your budget, AND STICK TO IT! (My wife gave me a $10,000 budget over 2 1/2 years to get a final system. Point being, be patient, do your research and buy the BEST quality pieces you can afford at the time and save for those perfect complimenting pieces down the road.)

Once you find equipment you really like, make a list of the items that fit best together AND that fits your size room, that fits your taste and decor and mostly fits your budget because ...the accessory spending just starts there!

You are in a unique situation where you can "borrow" some equipment from your dad to fill in a system until you save up to buy your own better updated equipment.

Your biggest expense should be allocated to speakers first and foremost! Next is your amplifier, then the rest, turntable if you want analog, CD player or DAC if you're going digital. But it matters little if you buy the best amplifier and CD player and you speakers are a couple of tin cans connected with strings. Your ears and brain is the most important component in your system. Use them both wisely.

Once you have finalized your list, and if you don't buy form the brick and mortar store, look on line to some respected dealers ( Soundstage Direct is excellent for turntables and equipment. I use them almost exclusively. For extremely high end stuff, and tube equipment, Upscale Audio in California is tops when it comes to buying tubes, tube amps and their advise and patience is great.)

Whatever you do NEVER buy based on internet poster advise UNTIL YOU AUDITION THE EQUIPMENT. Solicit advise after you audition brands and models and are familiar with the equipment so you can objectively weigh the advise you receive from posters. (Even ask people about this post! Don't take my word alone.)

I researched for 3 months before I even auditioned each component in my system in a Brick and mortar store in New Jersey. I researched whether to get Solid State or tube, monitor speakers or floor or bookshelf dependent on my room size and what's in the room. (Furniture, carpet, bookshelves, windows, shape of the room etc. all affect sound and the sound waves traveling to your ears). I even calculated where I wanted to place an eventual turntable because I wanted to mount it on a shelf screwed into the studs so no vibrations would travel into the system!

I eventually decided on the tube amplifier because I auditioned it and really loved the tube sound over solid state. I went with the Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II amplifier, KEF LS50 speakers and my Bluesound Vault and Node from them. I started out with streaming, adding my CD collection to the Bluesound and listens exclusively to the steeams, FLAC music downloads and burnt CD's. The next year I saved and allocated funds for a turntable, cartridge and wall mounting system. I researched and auditioned turntables in various places and bought my VPI Prime Scout and 2M Black cartridge from Soundstage Direct. I called them and asked 1,000 questions which they were so patient with and that made the sale. Now my system is complete and it's the wisest $10,000 spent over the 2 1/2 years. I can honestly say equipment wise I am done....now I only have to try to explain all the new albums I bring home to my wife!!!

Whatever you do...best of luck!

Steve

 

To my knowledge, no high-end manufacturer makes a cd changer anymore. If you must have one, your father's old Marantz may be your best bet. If possible I'd suggest a changer with a digital out so you can route the signal through your DAC (and move the DAC up your priority list because a high quality DAC is how you are going to get good sound out of a cd changer).

 

Thanks Steve. I know patience and demo-ing things live is the way to go..and that you start with Speakers work backwards (maybe I have absorbed some things from my Dad).

Guess I should ask a bit more pointed question (because my Dad's gear is 700+ miles away)....is any of it worth considering using for the l iiong haul? (I'm debating on dragging the speakers back East and maybe the Haflers and letting my brother keep the rest)....but not sure they would work well with digital systems. And I don't have the space for unnecessary gear, considering 1/2 my house is already in boxes.

I am seriously considering buying the Rotel. I know getting good carousel CDs players nowadays is virtually impossible. Even if it's just stopgap. I cannot live solely on my Bose II...I hate listening to single CDs straight thru, unless they are classical.

 

You'll get a lot of opinions. Soak them in.
However, I do respect your insistence on a changer. They're not as popular (thus as many options) as years ago. They also tend to break, and not have the best sound. No worries. Get a decent one, like the Onkyo DXC390 ($130 Amazon) and improve it's sound with a DAC. Myself, I'd avoid spending a ton of money on getting into/back-into vinyl, and instead spend $1700 on a Peachtree Nova 150*. Great integrated amp, with a great dac, great headphone output (and supposedly a very nice phone stage if you ignore my vinyl advice!) Leaves you $3k for the Oppo and very nice speakers, and the Nova will drive all but the least sensitive speakers. DONE.

*another nice thing about the Nova is the number of inputs, including analog, phone, 2 optical, coax and usb. Add a fanless pc and quiet drive when ready to stream.

 

Doug, good point about the changer. My dad's Marantz does not have a digital output, so that's probably not an option. The Rotel is $250, so it's not budget busting....and it has a Burr Brown DAC and digital output, so I think its worth a listen.

Probably not going to get a turntable. But if I do need to rip a couple of albums that I cannot get for CD format. Considering UDP-205, but I hate that it doesn't stream.

I do want a digital radio receiver or tuner. There is a great college radio station on Boston whose signal is weak in my area. It has an amazing Sunday morning show (starting with jazz, then morphing to blues/funk, then morphing to good current song)...and I hate that I cannot get a good signal (even with an antenna extender).
And, I miss listening to another great pubic radio station (the Current) in Minneapolis .

 

I have, as part of my system, a Sony SCD-CE595 SACD/CD player. I got this a number of years ago so I could play Super Audio discs, regular CD's, and music DVD's it is a 5 changer carousel unit and it sounds excellent in my system. I highly recommend it, but research it yourself to make sure it meets your needs.

On Amazon they range for as low as $81 up to $240 for like new units. I am very happy with it and it has been reliable for years. I never had any mechanical issues which you always must look at with carousel units. Look it up for reviews. The reviews are still out there in the net.

As for your other concerns, I would really suggest you look to new speakers and an amplifier. New technology, applied materials and designs in speakers have come a long way since your dad got his speakers. Polks are excellent speakers well within your budget and auditionable at places like Best Buy. If space is a concern look at bookshelves or monitors. If heavy bass is what your into look to an amp with variable outputs that can drive and power a subwoofer. With my system, I don't need a sub as my room is small and my LS50's put out a strong bass signal despite their small size. If you can spend $1,100-$1,400 on speakers, look at the KEF LS50's. I swear by them, but don't take my word for it alone, they are highly reviewed and other threads on this site and YouTube have discussed them as well as other monitors and bookshelves.

With your $5,000 budget you can really start a beautiful system. I think you are realistically looking at either a new solid state amplifier or a used tube amp. The general idea is if digital is your main goal, which it seems to be, I would look at a solid state amplifier. From what little I know of your requirements based on your post, you may want to stick with brands you and your dad have a history with like Marantz. They make a fine product. I personally don't like technics only because I had issues years ago when I had a Technics receiver product when I had my first apartment after law school and could get that Audio/video setup. As for the Amplifier, I suggest you look for new at a retailer (audition at a retailer and see if they will meet internet prices) or buy used on Audigon( it's a reliable site, I bought through Audiogon for certain accessories unavailable at retail or no longer made).

Even though I have a Bluesound Vault that I use in case of streaming and where I converted and burned all my 300 or so CD's, I predominantly concentrate on analog more than digital so that's why I went in the tube direction. I like the warmth and soundstage of tube sound and I like keeping as much analog along my system chain. (Tube amp and tube headphone amp). I did this knowing I would ultimately allocate a nice chunk of my budget on a high quality turntable and cartridge.

If a turntable is in your future plans and you want to either start or expand a record collection, build a system with analog tube amps. But you MUST audition the difference. If you honestly can't tell the two apart, do not waste money on the more expensive tube amps and put the money toward a better solid state amp or better speakers. If tubes are your thing, and you will know when you hear them, I would look to a used tube amplifier with enough db of gain to run a high quality MM cartridge (39-45db will run high quality MM cartridges and even some entry level high output MCs can run on 45db). If you can find any used model of Rogue Audio tube Amps for excellent prices jump on them. You will see on used audiophile sites that they are not sold second hand very often as a Rogue owners usually keep their units...I know I will because I just had mine upgraded by Rogue. (Also Rogue is 100% made in USA which was important to me knowing they were designed and hand made in Pennsylvania)

Again, whatever you decide, trust your ears over any poster advice or salesman hype..best of luck,

Steve

 

I have the still currently available new model Yamaha CD Changer CD-C600 which has I POD/USB input and very respectable sound with a great Burr Brown 192 kHz/24-bit DAC in it and pure direct switching option.

Under $325 new if you look around. MSRP $380.

VERY well built, hefty power transformer inside, I know, I opened mine up.
This is not some 5 pound cheap flyweight unit, it's about 14 pounds.
Had mine about 4 years now, not a single issue yet. I use it in my office system.

Here $285 through Walmart free shipping.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Yamaha-C...53737&wl11=online&wl12=44632377&wl13=&veh=sem



CD-C600 - Specs - Yamaha - United States

Yamaha CD-C600





Digital optical out, and an IEC socket power cord, nice if you care to put a better cord on. I got a heavier 14 gauge OF-Copper one for under $14 for mine:

 

Wrong. See my post above.

 

There are quality cd changers available. I have been using a Onkyo Integra CDC 3.4/ 6 disc player. It has both toslink and coax output jacks. It is a $300 player new. Yes, Yamaha has a carousel as well. It has only a toslink output. The disc buttons are located under the tray which I find very unconvenient however. You can find used changers online. Sony made some until quite recently and Onkyo has the DXC390 for less than $150.

 

Not debating, OP, but why not a player which plays FLAC files instead? CD changers have tons of mechanical parts which can falter and they're much bigger and unpractical than if you were to get a FLAC player.

 

(1)My thinking here on not spending too much is that they break, and that their sound will be improved by the DAC you get. You WILL be getting a DAC (or your integrated amp will include one, like the Peachtree) because you'll eventually want to rip your CDs, and buy/stream hi-rez music...
(2)... which means, you'll eventually need a 'source' for your rips into your DAC. I use a tiny fanless PC and a silent (from my sitting position) Western Digital Passport 2TB drive with all my music on it (added a AudioQuest Jitterbug in the chain due to rave reviews). I run it from my phone or tablet using J. Rivers Media Center and the remote apps. BTW, this allows me to store a bunch of Internet Radio Stations (like the Current, and some nice European jazz and classical ones) in a playlist and then I can choose one the same as an album.

 

Thanks all.

Strat, I do eventually want to rip the CDs. But I've been planning to do this for 5 years and it has not happened. So I'm planning like its not going to happen.

Spsesq....thank you, I was not sure if my Dad's gear was SO good that I should consider it. I've read good things about the Hafler (even from this site). I'm going digital, solid state amp is probably the way to go. I had 'test driven' an NAD amp, I liked their sound, but obviously I'd need to start over.

Guild, thank you for the recommendation on the Yamaha. I'll look into that too. Didn't know it was so robust.

My current amp is a Sony str-de695. Hopefully it's good enough as a vessel to start the journey

 

Some of these posts I find incredible. Don't buy a cd changer because it has mechanical moving parts that will cause it to break down. By that logic no one should ever buy a turntable. From what I read the original poster wants a carousel and will eventually get a stand alone DAC. That means it will become a transport-only at sometime. There are plenty of changers to be found, unlike some have stated.

 

I myself only said 'buy one, but don't spend a lot'. Because, yes, more likely to fail than a standard deck, but at $140, replacement not painful.

 

I've owned an Onkyo Integra changer for 10 years and no failures. That is a fact not speculation.

 

Guys, appreciate the feedback, but I do want a carousel. I don't care about failures, but appreciate the context around being fully knowledgeable that there are newer technologies and they have a lot of parts.

Let's move on, please.

Internet radio. I am not thrilled about having a computer hooked up to a stereo (I already have 3 computers, too many!), nor am I keen on using a phone to bluetooth music to a very nice sound system. Has anyone used an internet tuner (like Grace or Sangean). Thoughts?

 

I have three Grace Mondo radios that I use in my house. It does have analog rca outputs to hook up to an audio system. There are 10 presets only. The interface is a little clunky in order to get the radio up and running. One good thing is if a station you listen to does not come up on a search, you can contact Grace and they will program your station into the database. For roughly $150 it isn't bad and frankly, there aren't many stand alone choices.

 

Congrats. Doesn't change the fact that changers break more often than standalones. And I did encourage him to get one anyway. (I won't be supporting my fact with further documentation or testimonials either )
Moving on...

 

Get a Carousel!!!! There is nothing wrong with them. I have one with no history of issues. You get what suits you best. (I said earlier take all the advice [even mine] with a grain of salt-research everything...its all out there fro free on the net!).
As for the digital radio, internet and your CD's. Look at products like a SONOS or BlueSound system. I use the BlueSound Vault and Node. They have really nice units that have better DACs and storage than Sonos. I also get internet radio through the unit's Bluetooth through apps on my phone and iPad. I even get radio stations from Belgium so I can listen to the same stuff my friend who lives there does.

Steve

 

Thanks all. Okay, can I ask a REAL noob question.

I have a gazillion albums ripped by my brother and dad, sitting on a Seagate external hard (NTFS format) drive. In general, can those be hooked up to DACs? Everyone talks about a USB (which are typical FAT32 format, IIRC), but not about an external hard drive. I am sure 99% of the albums are poor quality rips, , but a lot of them are albums I would never ever personally obtain. Musical taste calisthenics, if you will. But it would be interesting to explore those albums once in a while. Plus, some of my CD collection is ripped to that same drive.

Thanks

 

People may be talking about USB "DACs," or at least a USB input on a DAC. But yes, the files on the HDD (format of disk doesn't matter) would be attached to a computer, and the computer's output attached to a DAC. However, and others will have more knowledge on other devices, some DAC/Streamers would accept the HDD by itself, without a computer in between. I know nothing about those devices, but they have the software onboard to allow the files to be selected and played.

Of course, you could burn the files onto CDs for your changer too. And if he ripped to MP3, they may be compatible with your CD player and hold a bunch of albums per CD.

 

Guys, thank you for all your help. I bought the Rotel yesterday and plugged in today. Wow. My CDs sound better already. It is silver and the random is on the remote (neither of which I like). I might bring home a Yamaha just to compare the two, sound wise. I almost bought a BlueSound yesterday, but I remembered I already have a DAC in my Sony receiver, so I bought an Esinkin adapter (it was cheap, $2o, and it hooks into my receiver's coax)..so that I can dip my toe into the world of Tidal and streaming (I admit, when I saw how many Julie London albums were on Tidal, I almost fell over).

I was even able to figure out why my Blueray player wasn't feeding sound thru my receiver. Who hoo. (I know, probably old hat for most of you, but I set up my system that way 3 years ago, and it's bugged me forever).

 

Glad you got what you wanted and it lives up to your expectations. Now sit back and enjoy the music because that's what it is all there for.
Steve

 

Exactly. Its silver color really shouldn't matter.