Pete Best was a lousy drummer.....we were sick of him- John Lennon

True, becoming a part of a world changing phenomenon generally requires both talent and luck. Heck, just surviving to adulthood requires a certain amount of luck.

 

Wow. That must have been rough.

 

I am no drummer or expert in Beatles history. We hear of the few recordings of Pete Best with the Decca tapes and I guess the Tony Sheridan recordings in Hamburg. My questions are:

1) If Pete would've stayed with the Beatles, could he have become a better player with the direction of George Martin and maybe pressure from the rest of the band?

2) Do we have any recordings of Ringo from the years that Pete was playing with the Beatles at least to compare how great Ringo was at the same time period?

 

Wow, people are still talking about this??? LOL

I'm a drummer, and no offense to Pete, but based on the recordings I've heard from the 62' era...his playing ability left a lot to be desired. He never really came up with creative parts that lifted the songs and gave them the spark they needed. Obviously, the Fabs made the right choice in Ringo, but even Ringo had his troubles from time to time. Still, of the two, Ringo was the better player any day of the week.

From past interviews I've read, it doesn't sound like Pete ever really got "in" on the act of being a Beatle - the humor, quick wit, creative talent and the ability to hang and be IN the gang. He never got that.
Just imagine Pete in place of Ringo at the first US press conference... It doesn't work. Ringo was charming, funny and had talent! If the shoe fits....just sayin.

 

Regarding fashioning drumming arrangements, according to Paul McCartney, Ringo didn't do that. The others told Ringo what to play in terms of drumming.

 

Well said!

 

This CD was promoted as having Ringo on it pre-Beatles, although AFAIR there was some dispute about the veracity of that claim on here when it was released. I'm sure someone here will know for sure:

Rory Storm And The Hurricanes* - Live At The Jive Hive

 

It's impossible to say for certain. But we do know that Lennon felt Best did not improve at all in the time he was in the band. And there doesn't seem to be any marked difference in his playing on the earliest recordings we have (the first Sheridan sessions in June 1961) and the last (the EMI test in June 1962). Sheridan has said that even being criticized (and having part of his kit taken away) by Bert Kaempfert didn't seem to light any kind of fire under Best, and I imagine there was pressure from the rest of the band during the months before he was fired, but that clearly didn't help.

If nothing else, we have recordings from Ringo just after he joined, and it's clear his drumming was great right out of the box. His work on Please Please Me is as good as anything he ever did, so there was clearly no learning curve needed for him.

According to this article, Lewisohn is certain it's not Ringo. Ringo apparently was ill the night it was recorded, and this is documented by a diary kept by Hurricanes guitarist Johnny Guitar at the time. There's clips of a few songs on youtube, and they sound nothing like Ringo's work.

 

Dammit, isn't that just s*d's law that he was absent that night? Although reading the comments on the article, there still seems to be a sliver of uncertainty either way...

 

I've heard there is no Ringo on that, would love to know for sure. Oh, thanks czeskleba!
Still worth having as vintage early beat stuff.

 

Only incident I know of this happening was Paul suggesting the drum idea for Ticket To Ride.

As a drummer myself, band members make all kinds of suggestions for drums, but saying the others told Ringo what to play is nonsense.

That's also one hallmark of a great drummer: to be able to take suggestions and play the parts to perfection instead of having an ego about it and refusing or simply not being able to hack it.

 

Well, we know that after the breakup, John and Paul and George would have a tendency to tell their drummers -guys like Jim Keltner or Denny Seiwell- to "play it like Ringo". I doubt they ever said, "Play it like Pete Best."

 

I don't think there's any genuine uncertainty. A contemporary diary account and the audio evidence seem pretty conclusive. It sounds like Rory's sister would really like it to have Ringo on it (since she knows it would be much more marketable if it did) so she's deliberately fostering some doubt.

 

I can back up your comments re The Mail. In their online article 28 nov 2015 which was headlined "The Dark Truth About Yoko Ono is revealed by BBC DJ Andy Peebles", the article opens with the following sentence -
"It was the rock ’n’ roll coup of the decade, the one that every broadcaster was desperate to secure: the first interview for ten years with John Lennon."
Not that I want to single out the Mail for being rubbish. They are not alone but first interview with John Lennon for 10 years ? Shows you how much research they do. You can disprove that in a 2 second google search. Very unprofessional.

 

Excellent post. I referred to this before as how Ringo was suitable to what the Beatles needed, but yes, what made that true was his adaptability, his ability to fit in with the right parts over a very wide range of material and arrangements. And do so in the moment. In other words looking back was there ever a point where the drums were holding them back? Tomorrow Never Knows is an excellent example in that regard, material that was (in pop music terms) as avant garde as anything, and yet Ringo's drums are perfect, and being perfect perfectly in the moment.

 

Well, the Star Club stuff is post-Pete, but I'm guessing it's probably pretty representative of what Ringo was doing (or could do) pre-Beatles.

 

Hallelujah!

 

Yep. The fact that he was a really great rock drummer in late 1962 suggests he probably was a great drummer in early 1962 also.

 

Never heard that one.

 

He was incredibly versatile. The guy who played Tomorrow Never Knows also played Honey Pie. Even in late '62, at the Star Club, when they do Red Sails in the Sunset, he is not only incredibly tight, he goes into a ska/bluebeat pattern in the middle eight. I think when Paul (?) said the Beatles gave Ringo direction, he probably meant that they made suggestions/requests to improve what Ringo was playing. You can hear it on the I Want To Hold Your Hand outtake - Paul is asking for more attack on the first phrase. I've no doubt that Paul would probably have suggested patterns himself but I'm sure that wasn't the whole story.

 

Here's one example. Fidelity is lousy, but you can hear well enough to tell Ringo is doing some great work:

 

Say what you like about McCartney, heh, he knows drums.

 

Maybe, but the Beatles' creativity would have suffered. I've been in bands where there was one player who was not at the same level of ability as the rest of us. It is the most frustrating situation you can imagine, especially if everyone else is in the moment.

Has Pete ever commented on the fact that George M was going to use a session drummer if PB had stayed with the band? The interviews are out there - Compleat Beatles (1982?), Anthology.

 

Ringo has said that, at one of the gigs where he depped for Pete, they were doing Rock n' Roll Music. In the middle eight, Ringo went to the toms and John turned around in delight.

 

"We always gave Ringo direction on every single number. It was usually very controlled. Whoever had written the song, John for instance, would say, "I want this." Obviously, a lot of things came out of what Ringo was playing, but we would always control it." Paul McCartney