Nat King Cole Sings/George Shearing Plays

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Todd Fredericks, Aug 6, 2002.

  1. Gardo

    Gardo Audio Epistemologist

    Location:
    Virginia
    So odd to see my posts here from so long ago. I'd completely forgotten about them, of course.

    I think I'll head back to the store today and pick up that mono LP, especially if it has the bonus LP in there (the plastic sleeve was taped shut for some reason).
     
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  2. bozburn

    bozburn Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA, US
    The Capitol yellow label "SM" release sounds great as well.
     
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  3. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    This is one of my favorite albums. It brings out the best from both guys (other than the best of Cole as a pianist, since he's not playing). Both Cole and Shearing show off their ability to put some gentle swing into anything. The arrangements are understated. I have a mono of this and it sounds fantastic. I'll be putting it on today. Thanks for the reminder of this album.
     
  4. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    Ralph Carmichael, this album's arranger, has said that for many years he kept rehearsal tapes in a box in his garage. Sadly, they got tossed or lost for good.
     
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  5. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Ugh! What a shame...... Do you know where the rehearsals took place? Something informal, i.e., just working out keys, styles, etc., before getting arrangements made up, etc.?
     
  6. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    This is what Ralph had to say about it in 2005:

    "Our first production meeting took place, oh on the fourth floor or the sixth floor – someplace up there in a conference room [in the Tower].

    And I had my score paper there and I was takin notes and, oh it was terrible. Cause you know, we'd get everything set and then Nat would say “wait a minute, I think George should take the first instrumental break when we finish the first chorus.” So I'd erase everything and put the new directions in. And then George would say “ let's see, what key were we gonna...no I don't wanna do that in the key of D flat – I think E flat is a better key for me.” So I'd have to erase and start again. Well we spent about two hours up there, and when we finished, I don't think we had routined more than two or three tunes. It was just a waste of time.

    So what we decided is that the next meeting, we would do it down in the studio, and George would sit at the piano and have a mic right by him. And then Nat would have a mic and he'd be standing up over by the end of the piano. And that way we could record all of those changes and I'll I'd have to do would be to go through about 30 or 40 minutes of talk, fast forward to the last two or three minutes, cause the correct would be right there at the end, you see. So that worked out real good. And we got all the keys and the routines.

    I kept them around for quite a while. I don't know what ever happened to them, but I should be kicked in the britches for letting them get away 'cause it would be really something to listen to today."
     
  7. Chris C

    Chris C Music was my first love and it will be my last!

    Location:
    Ohio
    You guys may enjoy this ...

     
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  8. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    [​IMG]
    These are quick-and-dirty transfers, so please forgive the gunk you may hear.

    Audio clip #1: c. 1978 MFP reissue: https://app.box.com/s/rvcttr7zpj5jznzcccgasfa1noes99j1
    Audio clip #2: c. 1981 (?) MFSL LP: https://app.box.com/s/8wh9yh17kppsyxlwx5udajzmw28qhj79
    Audio clip #3: 1986 UK DMM LP, with two bonus tracks: https://app.box.com/s/2aspm0vpex0dvzb4lawjegeakezdbb0u

    On clean copies, there's nothing at all wrong with the other two, but there's nothing quite like a well-mastered piece of totally quiet JVC SuperVinyl.
     
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  9. Gardo

    Gardo Audio Epistemologist

    Location:
    Virginia
    That's really interesting--thanks!

    On my computer speakers (M-Audio Studiophile BX5 nearfield monitors, good but not outstanding) I would rank the copies thus:

    MFSL
    1986 UK DMM
    1978 MFP reissue

    The MFSL has better resolution in the midband, to my ears. I can distinguish piano from vibes better, and hear into the textures of the voice more readily. I do hear smiley-face EQ that pumps up the sibilance and makes Cole's voice sound muddier, which is not good, but the better vinyl and mastering carry the day. It's also nice to hear the string bass a bit more distinctly--puts a better bottom on the combo.
    The UK DMM is close to a tie with the MFSL in some respects, and I actually prefer the EQ on Cole's voice, but it sounds like it's cut from a copy tape. Just a little flatter, a little more inert-sounding.
    The MFP reissue sounds like a copy of a copy. Good sound, but kinda ho-hum.

    With the caveat that all the above might sound different on my prime rig, that's what I'm hearing. Great comparison--thanks again.
     
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  10. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    We all know the famous cover picture:
    R-2656427-1326455969.jpeg.jpg
    Here's another album cover photo with Nat in the same outfit:
    R-3733132-1342344522-8946.jpeg.jpg
    Mic used as a prop for the photo? Piano mic moved for ease of photo-taking (such as when Frank Sinatra stood in front of the band for Swingin' Session a year earlier)? Vocal's actually captured on an RCA 44? That would surprise me somewhat, but we also have these Dean Martin shots from around the same time:
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    .....yet this shot, from the same session, appears to show a Neumann in the vocal booth:
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. mahanusafa02

    mahanusafa02 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    The mono LP is, IMO, definitely the way to go if you could only have one mix, because of that wonkiness in the original stereo mix. The CD, NR notwithstanding, is a superior stereo remix (centered vocals). I keep rips of all three mixes ready to go on iTunes, depending on what I feel like. It's by far my favorite NKC album. :)
     
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  12. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    I don't have that album (CHA CHA D'AMOUR), but I don't recall any mid or late period Dean Martin vocal on Capitol sounding like it was recorded with an RCA vs a Neumann. My guess is they didn't want those shots taken in the vocal shed and, for whatever reason, used the 44 with poetic license just for those pictures.
     
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  13. mpayan

    mpayan A Tad Rolled Off

    Eventhough it is a weird mix in the stereo, I like the Dell UK out of those clips the best. The mfsl sounds bloated to me. And a bit muffled. The Dell UK is a bit stringent sounding on the top end but still the clarity wins out for me. Nata voice sounds more natural on the Dell.

    Not perfect, but Id pick the UK.
     
  14. mpayan

    mpayan A Tad Rolled Off

    Im guessing the version I am listening to on Amazon Prime is the Larry Walsh remix. Some good things about that 87 version. But pretty subdued instrumentally and something isnt right about Nat King Coles voice. Phasing issues? Im not sure.
     
  15. mpayan

    mpayan A Tad Rolled Off

    Man, why cant Steve do this one?

    Its possibly one of the top NKC albums. Just beautiful entrancing music.
     
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  16. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    Just a prop.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  17. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    Love the mono also. The stereo MFSL is the best stereo to me.
     
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  18. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Agreed as to the "why" of having Nat panned to one side in the original stereo mix, but it's still weird.

    The track layout on the 3-track tape has always kind of confused me. I went through this morning and tried to really nail it down, and I think we have this:

    •On most songs, we have:
    --bass/drums on track 1
    --Nat and upper strings on track 2
    --George, vibes, lower strings, and sparingly-used guitar on track 3

    •On Serenata and the thankfully-left-off-the-album The Game of Love, which include extra instrumentation, we have:
    --bass/drums/winds on track 1
    --Nat and upper strings on track 2
    --George, vibes, lower strings, guitar, additional percussion on track 3

    It's *possible* that Nat's vocal may have been moved to the left in order to derive wide stereophonic strings in the mix, I suppose. (IMO, this is yet another 3-track recording of the time period that was using the 3-track with well-balanced mono as the primary goal, which is understandable.)

    Additional comment: Shelly Manne plays some tasteful and tastefully understated drum parts on this album. (I tend to view Manne as a bit of a hot-dogger (a VERY talented drummer, regardless), but he shows great restraint and understatement here.)
     
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  19. CBackley

    CBackley Chairman of the Bored

    I've been really enjoying the AP and AF SACDs of Nat "King" Cole. I checked out some of his other albums on a streaming service. His album with George Shearing is mindblowing! Wow. What's the best digital version of this album?

    I saw an older thread praising an old MFSL LP and a later SM- or SW- reissue. Are those the best vinyl versions?
     
  20. mahanusafa02

    mahanusafa02 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    If memory serves, Larry Walsh's 1987 remix tastefully puts NKC's vocals in the center, but has some NR. Ron McMaster's 2000 remix, I think, is different than Larry's but NKC is also centered, but with other processing. I've got The Walsh disc but not the McMaster, so I'm not 100% on the particulars for the latter disc. Some of the resident experts may have more to add here.

    The original stereo mix found on all stereo LPs has Nat halfway right and George's piano halfway left (haven't listened in ages to this mix, could be the other way round). Your best bet, I feel, LP-wise, is the original mono mix. It avoids the strange image of the original stereo mix and the processing on the CDs. But the Walsh remix is very well executed. I keep all three mixes in my iTunes but haven't listened to any of them for over a year. Must remedy that, thanks!
     
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  21. CBackley

    CBackley Chairman of the Bored


    Thanks!

    (I had attempted to start a new thread because I assumed wrongly that a thread started in 2002 wouldn't still be active. Amazing.)
     
  22. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Some CD comparision clips.

    In all clips, the order is:
    •Walsh CD first
    •McMaster CD second


    Both discs are stereo remixes.

    First up: Instrumental passages.

    Clip #1: Intro to September Song, before most of the strings enter: https://app.box.com/s/0kb6a3lr5h7fi3ggio5qvwpjlm6zrqcq
    Clip #2: More of the intro to September Song, with strings this time: https://app.box.com/s/dc715jw949aos7cw0ynoiq2827j22qk0
    Clip #3: A set of three brief Azure-Tè intro snippets: https://app.box.com/s/d5kn5oyjsfkgp60mb6wd56d790m5nrix
    Clip #4: Serenata instrumental interlude (with flutes and percussion): https://app.box.com/s/4rdz19eiarztokojoe1uwqit7mgyxa8k
    Clip #5: Piano-only intro to Fly Me to the Moon: https://app.box.com/s/yhdvnw2gv6otdutihzg8894i9he1g112
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
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  23. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

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  24. CBackley

    CBackley Chairman of the Bored

    I picked up a D3/D2 mono pressing online for cheap last night. I'm excited to hear it.
     
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  25. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    Don't think I realized I how cramped McMaster's mix feels. Not a lot space in there.
     
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