When that came out I had a hope they would do a COTN "as intended" (since Ace is on the cover) and release a deluxe version with the original album and a version with all the same tracks just with new Ace leads on every song instead of Vinnie, Robben, and Steve...hey, a KISS fan can dream, right? I think a lot of established artists use their collateral in this way - they're leveraging their hardwon popularity and visibility in exchange for the opportunity for a songwriter to be on the project. If the artist really does add something I don't think it's that egregious and the songwriter can always say, "no". And who knows? Maybe Gene's contributions were actually beneficial. I know there's a shameful history of managers, agents, etc. slapping their names on songs they never contributed to in any way - writing or performing - but I don't think that's what happened here - he didn't steal their song, but he did add the KISS name and his "Gene-ness" to it which consists of style, attitude, and an audience. At a certain point, just giving a song the "fill in artist name here" treatment changes the equation because you're going to sell a certain amount of copies based solely on the artist and not necessarily the music. And since song publishing is where an artist can actually make money within and beyond a specific record contract (as I understand it), I can see how an established artist justifies their credit as a result of their participation in the entire songwriting and song-creating process. But, of course, I'm not a songwriter...
Dudes, I'm having a very difficult time getting into Creatures. I think the biggest obstacle for me is the production. The drumming by Carr is excellent, no doubt about that, but it's too bombastic for my tastes. I don't like recordings where the drumming overtakes the songs, they should be further back in the mix as part of the song. This is my personal preference. And, as @GodShifter pointed out, too much reverb. I love 80's pop but 80's rock with those big drums are a tough listen for me. I have a similar problem with Bruce's Born in the USA for the same reasons. Secondly, the songs.....Bless you guys for loving them and thinking this is a return to form but it isn't so much a return than a new direction for KISS. Thus far I haven't heard anything above average but I do like Gene's vocals on Rock and Roll Hell and it is a decent enough song. I wish I could articulate this better but I think it was @vamborules above who stated that something is just off about the album. It's tough to pinpoint exactly because I feel there is a good rock record in there but presented in the fashion that it is I don't find it as appealing as previous KISS albums, even if it may or may not be better than some of those. The further we move along in the discography the more I yearn to hear Alive I again, or Rock and Roll Over. I just can't be as passionate about this era as I was up through Dynasty, and even though we hit some rough patches there during the solo records for some reason those were still fun for me. Unmasked is where my KISS passion began to come unglued, just like when I was 10. History repeats itself. Back as a teen I did briefly get back on the KISS bandwagon with Animalize and Asylum but never warmed up to those records either. I do have a somewhat funny story to share about Asylum when we get there so I'll keep listening, handing out some likes here and there, but the thrill is gone.
I dig how you feel. Felt the same way bro. Til I separated KISS into 3 bands. You got the originals, for the sake of argument I'll include everything up to Dynasty. Then there's this interim KISS, the solos, Elder, Unmasked. Then there's New KISS from COTN on with some great highs (COS & Revenge) and some lows. Once I did that I didn't hate the "new" stuff so much. Now admittedly I ain't right in the head, as evidenced by my post, but it may help to look at it differently and not compare them to the older (better) stuff. All that to say stick around pal we miss ya! Peace bro, iam
Rock and Roll Hell: A great Gene tune, even if it's one of those 80s Gene tunes, has a nice little gallop, an excellent vocal performance, really strong musically, it's a killer song for this record, tied for my second favorite Gene song, I absolutely love this song. Now I'll comment on Ace's version: I really love it musically, vocally okay, I mean there's just no competing with Gene on the original, but nonetheless it's a solid track and one of the better off Origins which I wasn't that big on.
Seems like we're getting some potential defectors, some treasonous thoughts. Don't make @GodShifter order a 'code red'!!
I'm often reading the board while I'm working, as I am now--I'm in the middle of a few film-scoring projects, so I'll be sitting right next to a keyboard or sometimes I'll have a guitar or bass around my neck . . . so I decided to play along with this KISS Kruise version of "Keep Me Coming" for a minute and I just noticed that they're tuning down a whole step now--presumably to make the vocals a bit easier. (I wish I could tell that without having to check it against an instrument, but alas, this poor soul wasn't blessed with perfect pitch.)
Yeah, I don't know if there are any pre-KISS demos of it floating around, but except for the lyrics in the chorus, the KISS version and the BTO version are almost completely different. So it's hard to say just how complete the music was when they retooled it and gave it to Gene. Creatures has a unique aesthetic to it, and "Rock and Roll Hell" fits into that seamlessly. That would suggest that the version on the album has differences that I'd think deserve a songwriting credit (although my views on that in general are a bit controversial). I do like the BTO version, by the way. BTO in general I think is a very underrated band.
First of all, posts like yours, @Exile On My Street, are why this thread is working so well - it's a joy to read any opinion when it's nicely thought out and conveyed with depth and heart! Great point - this is a meaner, leaner, and more pissed-off and serious KISS than we've seen before and more of a new direction than a return, for sure. For lack of a better term, COTN lacks a certain amount of "fun" that "classic" KISS had in spades. Don't get me wrong - that's not necessarily a bad thing at all and I happen to love COTN - but it is undeniably a different thing. I think this is due to a couple of main things - #1 This was P&G struggling to keep their dream alive (not to mention their careers!) and that was serious business with little time for fun. They wanted to do a 180 degree spin from the disco-pop-silly elements on Dynasy and Unmasked and completely obliterate the pretentious "arty" quality of The Elder and, even if you don't love COTN, you have to admit they succeeded with those goals. Nothing poppy, disco-like, silly, or "arty" here. But not a lot of "fun", either. #2 Remove Ace Frehley from any situation and the fun quotient drops dramatically. Period. As for Peter he also brought a fun and loose style that defined those earlier albums with an innate sense of swing and ease that wouldn't have worked with COTN as we know it. Not only would he not want to play drums like Eric does on COTN, I'm not sure he even could (no knock on Peter at all, just very different styles).
I agree with this. I think people saying it's a return to form are really saying 'They have returned to a form which I like'. They didn't sound like this between 74 - 77 though I would make a case for God Of Thunder and all of Destroyer really. It has that same dark vibe and the production was really paid attention to.
So ... I've been listening to CotN and keeping up with the thread; I don't have much to say specifically regarding any of the tracks this far as I don't have strong feelings either way. The title track is great, S&S and RnRH are mediocre because that's Gene's MO musically, and KMC is whatever, so whatever. Don't fret - I do have very strong feelings about "Danger" landing on both ends of the musical spectrum, so I promise another one of my extremely opinionated, snarky posts. ... Carr's drums, though ... Now, I don't know if it's because I'm so used to the modern recording/production of the current rock/metal drum kit, but Carr sounds so ... "synthetically bombastic." The snare isn't especially tight, the bass resonates, the toms are all HUGE, and every single cymbal crash possesses a decay exceptionally longer than I'm used to hearing. I believes others in this thread and elsewhere compared Carr's drum sound to Bonham's kit - which may be a fair comparison in some respects - but the production on these KISS albums is very different to that of Led's. Bonham's sounds more organic and honest, while Carr's just sounds processed and mic'ed - like someone was looking to synthesize this sound with studio magic instead of trying to create the sound just with the drums. It's as if the drums were triple miced in the studio, and then processed on the "Huge Hall" setting of some processor. THAT being said, Carr's drums are also a breathe of fresh air because the modern drum sound is almost TOO clean, too perfect, every effing sound is triggered and therefore sound identical (which SUCKS), and a bass drum sound reminiscing of a stapler click possessing absolutely NO bass end whatever. I'd love to hear others opinions on this, as I've been obsessed with recorded drum sounds lately.
Yeah, I agree with that and had commented on it earlier. This was them getting back on track via being in touch with what was currently popular in the hard rock/metal world. They'd gotten off-track in that. They had ceased being on top of trends in current popular music. That was dangerous ground to tread at the time. NWOBHM and the early hair metal bands were what was hip at the time. Creatures was a response to that, KISS-style.
I agree with you that Carr's drums don't sound like Bonham, and that they sound processed/kind of synthetic instead. But nevertheless I like the way Carr's drums sound here. I think it works well for the tunes and the overall sound of the album, and it also fit well into the musical landscape of 1982/1983, which was important.
I'm pretty well with you and said something similar some pages back - I am enjoying the album but it's only a return to form in the sense of returning to rocking harder consistently througout the album - actually, COTN rocks harder and then some. I am very much of the mind that COTN is the start of a new chapter and a clean break from the KISS we know. I see Dynasty/Unmasked/The Elder as transition albums. By COTN the transition was complete - they just didn't officially announce it. But you can hear it. I DO think the songs are solid for the most part but - put it this way - I have several KISS playlists on my iTunes and my best of (so to speak) contains the first 6 albums pretty close to their entirety. After Love Gun, it's a few songs here, a few songs there. I think COTN marks the official beginning of the metal flavor to KISS and I would guess how highly one rates COTN and the next few would hinge on how well they like metal - or, more specifically, 80s metal. I don't hate it but I am much more of a 70s hard rock guy than an 80s metal guy so my ears gravitate more towards the earlier material. But I get why people LOVE COTN - the band sounds engaged and confident, balls to the wall - at the time of the album's release, stuff like Detroit Rock City and I Want You probably seemed a million years ago in a galaxy far, far away.
a quick blurb on that infamous drum sound Carr, undoubtedly confused about joining a straight-ahead rock band only to have his first project be the ornate Music From the Elder, was thrilled to show what he could do in a more traditional setting. As anyone who’s heard the hard-hitting album can tell you, producer Michael James Jackson made sure the drums were the first thing anybody heard. “Gene and I went on a search-and-destroy mission all over Los Angeles to find a great drum room,” he recalled. “I used vintage microphones on the drums, and the room itself was also well covered with microphones. The end result was excellent, and further enhanced by the fine work Bob Clearmountain did in the mix at the Power Station.” Read More: The History of Kiss’ ‘Creatures of the Night’ | The History of Kiss’ ‘Creatures of the Night’
That's just one of the reasons I love Motown etc., you can hear them speed up and slow down ever so slightly during the tempo of one song - it's just more alive because human beings played it and it sounds like it..
Rock and Roll Hell Pretty enjoyable song overall, but nothing earth-shattering. It's basically a fine middle-of-the-side kind of song. Fits the vibe of the album pretty well and doesn't have any aspects that are outright bad. The "Heaven and Hell" bass line doesn't bother me and I really wouldn't associate it with that song unless Godshifter hadn't mentioned it. It's just a slow gallop and that seems pretty common. I think Gene's 3rd verse works with the rest of the lyrics and it's good to have another verse after the solo. The concept of the lyrics is kind of funny to me in that the kid wants to leave the town so bad because he's not able to sufficiently get his rock on. I'm sure it spoke to plenty of small town kids back in the day, just kind of silly to me....in the extent that "the music sucks in my town, there's no RAWK...I gotta leave!" Overall it's not a song I skip, but I don't love it or hate it.
I feel like I'm phoning this one in like Gene in the 1980's. I like Rock and Roll Hell, always felt it was one of the best cuts on the album. I'm starting to realize that the best 5 KISS songs are probably Paul songs but after that I likely prefer Gene to Paul overall. The guitar in Rock and Roll Hell comes rolling in in a similar fashion to the previous cut. I'm in favor of the guitar announcing itself like that. Gene sings this (and Saint and Sinner) in a voice that sounds like it must hurt. It doesn't sound natural though that's just an observation, I like it and have no problem with the sound he's creating. The song leaves a lot of space with the big chords even though those chords aren't mixed that far forward. I like everything the guitar is doing in this song from rhythm to lead. The bass (very Heaven and Hell like @GodShifter said) has that Geezer Butler 'rubber bass' feel that I've mentioned in the past. Good start to the album, Gene is a bit ahead at this point. Edit to add. Maybe the point I made about space is why I think I prefer Gene overall. Especially here in the 1980's Paul's stuff seems so chaotic trying to be fast and current. There's more breathing room in Gene's tunes.
That's a great point, I never thought about that! It's not an "always" rule, but at least here in the early 80's it's certainly the case most of the time. Maybe Paul was either consciously or unconsciously stepping up into a more leadership role or maybe he thought he had to "play more" to make up for the loss of Peter and Ace?
Just getting caught up here, after a crazy week at work and fighting a nasty cold..... Creatures of the Night - This track announces - for better and for worse - the arrival of the new "80s heavy metal" version of Kiss. This track is definitely "for better." I love the guitar riffage, Carr's thunderous does drumming, and Paul absolutely kills it on vocals. This is easily one of the best opening tracks on a Kiss album. A true statement of purpose if I've ever heard one. 10/10. Saint and Sinner - Gene's first offering on the album is a keeper, and heralds the return of a focused, hungry Demon. The lyrics are great and Gene employs an effective, growly new vocal tone to make his point. His yowls during the fade out are amazing. The bass line isn't flashy but it really stands out to me. 9/10. Keep Me Comin' - While the title track accentuated the positives of Paul's new metal approach, KMC highlights the negatives. A generic Zeppelin pastiche, this track foreshadows even more derivative, crass material that would be found on future Kiss albums. The lyrics also feature the same kind of humourless sex puns that would besmirch said albums. 4/10. Rock and Roll Hell - My least favorite Gene song on Creatures, this is still an enjoyable track. It's features some more great Gene vocals, and a good song-a-long chorus. The sparse, bass-driven verses groove nicely. 7.5/10.
